Finals

[sprite]

The AFL should bite the bullet and develop a panel of fully professional umpires, spend time and money developing talent from all states.

Come GF the squad is made up of umpires from each state.

There must be good kids coming through in NSW, Qld, SA and WA that should have the effort put into developing them

[Blood Fever]

I personally think this another case of paranoia

Agree that Victorians to which i am one. Can get behind fellow Victoria teams however it is more likely that we cheer home a team from interstate.I was at a BBQ on the weekend and there was 20 people there all from Victoria all going for the crows.
Last year was an aberration people sided with the bulldogs as they are team that struggles financially/crowds etc
I would've supported them myself against any other team.

Most Victorians will not cheer for Pies/Blues/bombers

I live in Melbourne and was at the game. Atmosphere was not dissimilar to last year in my opinion. Same would have happened if it was at Adelaide Oval and that would have been fairer given they finished on top. I know I need to get over it because it won't change for at least another 20 years, but for me the situation is a blight on the so called national comp.

[barry]

It can change whenever the AFL want it to. Wasn't too long ago that all finals were at MCG.

[Blood Fever]

It can change whenever the AFL want it to. Wasn't too long ago that all finals were at MCG.

What are the odds?

[goswannies]

It can change whenever the AFL want it to. Wasn't too long ago that all finals were at MCG.

Seriously Barry, it hasn't been since the mid 1970s that all finals were played at the MCG - VFL Park was an alternative Finals venue. From 1992 non-Victorian were permitted to host finals. That's two and a half decades. Sure, since the birth of the VFL its recent, but since the inception of non-Vic teams is not recent by any standard.

[barry]

Seriously Barry, it hasn't been since the mid 1970s that all finals were played at the MCG - VFL Park was an alternative Finals venue. From 1992 non-Victorian were permitted to host finals. That's two and a half decades. Sure, since the birth of the VFL its recent, but since the inception of non-Vic teams is not recent by any standard.

The point being that the unbreakable MCG contact was broken ahead of time for the sake of integrity.

The grand final at the home ground of a few select clubs has zero integrity.

[stevoswan]

I personally think this another case of paranoia

Agree that Victorians to which i am one. Can get behind fellow Victoria teams however it is more likely that we cheer home a team from interstate.I was at a BBQ on the weekend and there was 20 people there all from Victoria all going for the crows.
Last year was an aberration people sided with the bulldogs as they are team that struggles financially/crowds etc
I would've supported them myself against any other team.

Most Victorians will not cheer for Pies/Blues/bombers

Well I'm a Victorian too and while you make some valid points re: Vics not supporting certain Vic teams, in regard to paranoia, I totally disagree. I think we have all seen enough repeated evidence, basically since we recruited Buddy, that the Melbourne Boys club is alive and well in keeping the heartland at the forefront of 'it's' league......and therein lies the problem. Too many footy powerbrokers, most who are Victorian born and Melbourne based, still see this league as somehow Victorian and treat interstate teams almost as if they should be happy just to be involved in 'their' league. Gil's not going to change anything so it would be nice for the interstate clubs to show some balls and stand up to them....but they're probably 'constitutionally' hamstrung by the laws drawn up by......the Melbourne Boys club (!) and of course, an iron clad contractual protection of 'heartland' home state advantage on Grand Final day.......

[0918330512]

The point being that the unbreakable MCG contact was broken ahead of time for the sake of integrity.

The grand final at the home ground of a few select clubs has zero integrity.

It's not just about integrity. Two big (related) factors are fiscal & capacity. Every season thousands of fans miss out on attending with a ground that holds 100,024 people.

The next biggest is that miserable Stadium Australia that has been maligned by the majority of AFL players and supporters alike, holding just 84,000. Already there would be 16,024 people missing out. Before you remount your hobby horse on this ground, get off it, your views are well known. My point is it's smaller than the MCG. Can't be argued, so please don't bother.

Docklands (Melbourne), Adelaide Oval, Lang Park (Brisbane) and Football Park (Adelaide) all have capacities in the 50,000 range - so just over half the number of patrons would have the pleasure of attending the biggest day of the football calander. And you can exclude Dockland and Footy Park as there are larger stadiums within the same state (MCG and Adelaide Oval respectively).

The rest of the functional grounds Australia wide (I'm ignoring Perth Stadium as it isn't open and hasn't had a game played on it. It only holds 60,000 as an oval anyway) hold less than hold of less than 50,000 patrons.

For those who have had the fortune of attending a grand final at the MCG, the atmosphere is almost indescribable, even if your team isn't playing. Whether a 50,000 full stadium can generate such an atmosphere is potentially inconsequential - the point is 50,000 people would miss out on experiencing it in a smaller stadium (or 16,024, if it was held at Stadium Australia).

For all those who desperately want to attend a grand final but miss out, having 16,024 or more fewer seats is devastating.

With fewer seats, comes fewer ticket sales. This would run into the millions of lost revenue. Less game day merchandise sold at the ground. Less catering sales at the ground. That's people's livelihoods you are suggesting compromising.

Ok, a logical counter argument might be build more large capacity stadiums to MCG capacity all around Australia (they have them scattered across the US, some would argue). Where is the money coming from to build them? What do you do with them during the regular home and away season when they are only half or a third filled (or worse still during the summer). That is a lot of under-utilised realestate (the majority of attendances are significantly less during the home & away season than finals & grand finals). Additionally, having a mega stadium is in say WA, SA or NSW, is also less useful during he finals if that state doesn't have a team that qualifies. As for the US, they have the population to sustain such stadiums (US 323M vs Aust 24M). And by the way, America's largest stadium only holds 107,601 attendees - per capita, the MCG affords AFL fans a far greater opportunity to attend the sporting season's marquee event.

Your views are idealistic but impractical.

One caveat I'd agree to is that more tickets should be made available to the general public rather than the MCC members & corporate (even at the high prices if the public are willing to pay it - and given the scalpers, I'd suggest many are). But that won't happen at the MCG any time soon. And many general public do get access to corporate tickets.

[bodgie]

That's all well and good 09183305 but they have to absolutely immediately address the home ground advantage. Richmond were gifted a home final against Geelong. Got their home prelim and then gifted a home GF for farck sake within walking distance of their homes and training oval. While teams have to fly from all over the country to take them on when often it should be vice versa.

Sure they can't have big stadiums all over the country but if they plan to keep a whole bunch of VFL teams then surely they can afford a third stadium in Melbourne so that it become a more neutral venue with greater access for visiting teams.

[0918330512]

That's all well and good 09183305 but they have to absolutely immediately address the home ground advantage. Richmond were gifted a home final against Geelong. Got their home prelim and then gifted a home GF for farck sake within walking distance of their homes and training oval. While teams have to fly from all over the country to take them on when often it should be vice versa.

Sure they can't have big stadiums all over the country but if they plan to keep a whole bunch of VFL teams then surely they can afford a third stadium in Melbourne so that it become a more neutral venue with greater access for visiting teams.

It's all well & good to say build at third stadium in Melbourne that's neutral but at what cost?

You have to have the land and if you are talking a stadium that holds 100k that's a big piece of land. Perth Stadium is costing between $1-1.5b to build and it holds only 60k. How can you justify building another Melbourne stadium that is filled to capacity once a year? And it it has to be tenanted by someone, who will have a home ground advantage. And who would pay for the
construction?

[Blood Fever]

It's not just about integrity. Two big (related) factors are fiscal & capacity. Every season thousands of fans miss out on attending with a ground that holds 100,024 people.

The next biggest is that miserable Stadium Australia that has been maligned by the majority of AFL players and supporters alike, holding just 84,000. Already there would be 16,024 people missing out. Before you remount your hobby horse on this ground, get off it, your views are well known. My point is it's smaller than the MCG. Can't be argued, so please don't bother.

Docklands (Melbourne), Adelaide Oval, Lang Park (Brisbane) and Football Park (Adelaide) all have capacities in the 50,000 range - so just over half the number of patrons would have the pleasure of attending the biggest day of the football calander. And you can exclude Dockland and Footy Park as there are larger stadiums within the same state (MCG and Adelaide Oval respectively).

The rest of the functional grounds Australia wide (I'm ignoring Perth Stadium as it isn't open and hasn't had a game played on it. It only holds 60,000 as an oval anyway) hold less than hold of less than 50,000 patrons.

For those who have had the fortune of attending a grand final at the MCG, the atmosphere is almost indescribable, even if your team isn't playing. Whether a 50,000 full stadium can generate such an atmosphere is potentially inconsequential - the point is 50,000 people would miss out on experiencing it in a smaller stadium (or 16,024, if it was held at Stadium Australia).

For all those who desperately want to attend a grand final but miss out, having 16,024 or more fewer seats is devastating.

With fewer seats, comes fewer ticket sales. This would run into the millions of lost revenue. Less game day merchandise sold at the ground. Less catering sales at the ground. That's people's livelihoods you are suggesting compromising.

Ok, a logical counter argument might be build more large capacity stadiums to MCG capacity all around Australia (they have them scattered across the US, some would argue). Where is the money coming from to build them? What do you do with them during the regular home and away season when they are only half or a third filled (or worse still during the summer). That is a lot of under-utilised realestate (the majority of attendances are significantly less during the home & away season than finals & grand finals). Additionally, having a mega stadium is in say WA, SA or NSW, is also less useful during he finals if that state doesn't have a team that qualifies. As for the US, they have the population to sustain such stadiums (US 323M vs Aust 24M). And by the way, America's largest stadium only holds 107,601 attendees - per capita, the MCG affords AFL fans a far greater opportunity to attend the sporting season's marquee event.

Your views are idealistic but impractical.

One caveat I'd agree to is that more tickets should be made available to the general public rather than the MCC members & corporate (even at the high prices if the public are willing to pay it - and given the scalpers, I'd suggest many are). But that won't happen at the MCG any time soon. And many general public do get access to corporate tickets.

There are many impostors from corporate, sponsors and packages on GF day. Most of the money comes from TV rights. Integrity of game more important than number of people at the ground. Looked at dispassionately and forgetting tradition, it is disgracefully unfair for higher placed non Melbourne based teams.

[dimelb]

The essence of the problem isn't the stadium, it's the concentration of clubs in Victoria. But it'll be a long time before we see clubs in Tasmania and the Northern Territory.

[Blood Fever]

The essence of the problem isn't the stadium, it's the concentration of clubs in Victoria. But it'll be a long time before we see clubs in Tasmania and the Northern Territory.

Home ground advantage should never go to lower ranked team just like every other competition on the planet. Pretty simple really.

[AnnieH]

Well I'm a Victorian too and while you make some valid points re: Vics not supporting certain Vic teams, in regard to paranoia, I totally disagree. I think we have all seen enough repeated evidence, basically since we recruited Buddy, that the Melbourne Boys club is alive and well in keeping the heartland at the forefront of 'it's' league......and therein lies the problem. Too many footy powerbrokers, most who are Victorian born and Melbourne based, still see this league as somehow Victorian and treat interstate teams almost as if they should be happy just to be involved in 'their' league. Gil's not going to change anything so it would be nice for the interstate clubs to show some balls and stand up to them....but they're probably 'constitutionally' hamstrung by the laws drawn up by......the Melbourne Boys club (!) and of course, an iron clad contractual protection of 'heartland' home state advantage on Grand Final day.......

When you say Melbourne Boys Club, you mean Eddie, don't you?

[barry]

Home ground advantage should never go to lower ranked team just like every other competition on the planet. Pretty simple really.

True.
The capacity argument is also hollow. Only 40,000 members of each club get to go to the grand final. Which means every state bar qld could hold that many.