2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Melbourne_Blood]

Apparently Ed Landon is a certainty to leave Freo at the end of the season, but will be going to Victorian club. St.Kilda, Melbourne and Collingwood are showing interest. How Melbourne and Collingwood would have any room in their cap is beyond me.

Melbourne I can understand having some room , but Collingwood is a different story. If you were going to play anywhere for unders though it would be Collingwood . Their Facilities and blockbusters games / crowds must be pretty attractive to a lot of players. Plus his brother plays there .


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[longmile]

Can anyone guess when an All Australian ruckman was last a premiership player (in the same year)?

A classy midfielder is a much greater priority given our current list state,

Agreed. We need a gun midfielder and an aggresive small forward if we want to go back to being a top 4 side. However I think a good ruck and a decent backman to free up Rampe would be absolutely ideal.

Hopefully this year is just an anomally in terms of ruck injuries

[Blood Fever]

Agreed. We need a gun midfielder and an aggresive small forward if we want to go back to being a top 4 side. However I think a good ruck and a decent backman to free up Rampe would be absolutely ideal

Hopefully this year is just an anomally in terms of ruck injuries

Rampe is fine as he is. Brilliant one on one player. Defenders first job is to defend. Allir is the one going ok as an interceptor.

[Ralph Dawg]

Rampe is fine as he is. Brilliant one on one player. Defenders first job is to defend. Allir is the one going ok as an interceptor.

No arguments about Rampe, what a brilliant player. But imagine if we could let him off the leash and essentially allow him to focus on moving the ball out of defence in a Malceski like role? I notice Tomlinson is available and has at times been out of the GWS team this year. We should try and get him.

[Markwebbos]

There’s a pretty extensive list of the main unsigned players and free agents (Zak Jones is on it, Harry C is not) on the AFL website.

It’s a bit of a shopping list for potential end of season targets.

What are they worth? Kelly, Coniglio, Martin and all the top trade targets - AFL.com.au

I always think clubs receive way under when they lose a player in a trade e.g. pick 14 for Tom Mitchell. The article suggests “Mid second-round pick” for ZJ.

He was a pick 15. Club has invested 6 years into him. Now coming into his prime years etc.

As an aside this weeks Trends podcast has a person who measures the importance of cohesion, stability etc to clubs and says its THE most important factor in success. So changing players, coaches, game plan etc are all negatives. As is trading in players.

I found it iconoclastic

[bloodspirit]

Here's a very handy round up of who's in the market: What are they worth? Kelly, Coniglio, Martin and all the top trade targets - AFL.com.au.

Quite a few worth considering including Francis and Keath as KPD types, and various inside mids including Brayden Sier.

They suggest Zak Jones is worth only mid second round pick. If that is the case I think he's worth more to us and we should not trade him. However maybe the decision is not in our hands. I'll be sorry to see him leave for a second round pick. That's less than we paid for him before investing years of development with him just coming into his prime. Plus his age/experience profile is exactly the type that are a bit thin on the ground for us at the moment and we need to hang on to.

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Jinx!

[Blood Fever]

No arguments about Rampe, what a brilliant player. But imagine if we could let him off the leash and essentially allow him to focus on moving the ball out of defence in a Malceski like role? I notice Tomlinson is available and has at times been out of the GWS team this year. We should try and get him.

Dawson Malceski like left leg

[Ludwig]

What are they worth? Kelly, Coniglio, Martin and all the top trade targets - AFL.com.au

Of the players discussed in the above AFL website article, I would be most interested in Tom Cutler and Aiden Bonar. I would be willing to part with our 3rd round pick for Cutler and our 2nd round pick for Bonar.

I maintain that we have a top 4 side in the making with the players already on our list. It's just a matter of development and the passage of time. It's not the year to go after an elite (expensive) player, but another solid versatile player who can play through the midfield would add to the depth of the team.


Below is a repost of part of a comment I made on the current selection changes thread v Geelong (in reference to ruckmen):

I've long been in favour of playing a McLean/Amartey type ruckman, while not conceding the ruck contests, playing a defensive setup, recognising that the opposition have the advantage. It's easier developing counterplay off a negating setup than acquiring one of the half dozen dominant ruckmen going around and keeping him healthy. There is the additional advantage of opening more list spots, otherwise reserved for ruckmen, for other kinds of players (non-specialised ruckmen). Although I am a Longmire fan, a major criticism has been his tiring trope of 'you can never have enough ruckmen'. For me, this says that too many resources are being allocated to a losing cause, and playing to a weakness, rather than trying to change the weakness to a strength.


I would trade or delist Naismith, Cameron and Knoll, freeing up 3 list spots, and go into next season with Sinclair, McLean and Amartey as our ruck division, plus drafting or recruiting another similar player, i.e. someone who is primarily a tall forward who can also ruck. It also creates a point of difference where other sides have to do some special planning to counteract the Swans' stoppage strategy.

[Mr Magoo]

What are they worth? Kelly, Coniglio, Martin and all the top trade targets - AFL.com.au

Of the players discussed in the above AFL website article, I would be most interested in Tom Cutler and Aiden Bonar. I would be willing to part with our 3rd round pick for Cutler and our 2nd round pick for Bonar.

I maintain that we have a top 4 side in the making with the players already on our list. It's just a matter of development and the passage of time. It's not the year to go after an elite (expensive) player, but another solid versatile player who can play through the midfield would add to the depth of the team.


Below is a repost of part of a comment I made on the current selection changes thread v Geelong (in reference to ruckmen):

I've long been in favour of playing a McLean/Amartey type ruckman, while not conceding the ruck contests, playing a defensive setup, recognising that the opposition have the advantage. It's easier developing counterplay off a negating setup than acquiring one of the half dozen dominant ruckmen going around and keeping him healthy. There is the additional advantage of opening more list spots, otherwise reserved for ruckmen, for other kinds of players (non-specialised ruckmen). Although I am a Longmire fan, a major criticism has been his tiring trope of 'you can never have enough ruckmen'. For me, this says that too many resources are being allocated to a losing cause, and playing to a weakness, rather than trying to change the weakness to a strength.


I would trade or delist Naismith, Cameron and Knoll, freeing up 3 list spots, and go into next season with Sinclair, McLean and Amartey as our ruck division, plus drafting or recruiting another similar player, i.e. someone who is primarily a tall forward who can also ruck. It also creates a point of difference where other sides have to do some special planning to counteract the Swans' stoppage strategy.

Im not so sure about just conceding the ruck. Its very difficult to win centre clearances with a constant losing ruck and centre clearance wins are in my view so important for a successful team.

While a good midfield is part of the puzzle , a good midfield alone will probably have no issue with an inferior midfield but will struggle against a midfield that is mildly inferior or their equal if they are never winning the ruck.

The defensive setup you speak of is what the swans have almost been doing the whole time Sinclair has been in the ruck and its not a winning formula.

[Blood Fever]

Im not so sure about just conceding the ruck. Its very difficult to win centre clearances with a constant losing ruck and centre clearance wins are in my view so important for a successful team.

While a good midfield is part of the puzzle , a good midfield alone will probably have no issue with an inferior midfield but will struggle against a midfield that is mildly inferior or their equal if they are never winning the ruck.

The defensive setup you speak of is what the swans have almost been doing the whole time Sinclair has been in the ruck and its not a winning formula.

Agree with this. Really like Sinclair's efforts but we have been exposed big time when he s up against a much bigger/better ruck. Was in Brisbane earlier this year and was at the game. We had the defensive structure but Stefan Martin just kept hitting the ball into space and the Brisbane midfield just ran onto the ball time after time. They beat us very easily as a result.

[707]

Aiden Bonar, ressie watchers might be able to tell us more about his NEAFL form which doesn't appear good enough to get a senior gig, even with a long injury list. Or have I missed him playing seniors while I've been away on holidays?

[Ludwig]

Im not so sure about just conceding the ruck. Its very difficult to win centre clearances with a constant losing ruck and centre clearance wins are in my view so important for a successful team.

While a good midfield is part of the puzzle , a good midfield alone will probably have no issue with an inferior midfield but will struggle against a midfield that is mildly inferior or their equal if they are never winning the ruck.

The defensive setup you speak of is what the swans have almost been doing the whole time Sinclair has been in the ruck and its not a winning formula.

I agree that what I am proposing is continuing with a Sinclair type ruckman at stoppages. I also agree that it hasn't worked, yet. We don't have all the pieces in place yet, or developed enough, to change from a stoppage to a turnover team, more in line with Richmond of WB.

I'm suggesting that we should stop chasing a player that would enable us to compete against Max Gawn and Brodie Grundy, and accept that the ruck is not our strong point. We should rather turn our attention to our developing strengths, which will be a game based on pressure and speed of ball movement. We also need to get back to where we once were in contested possession, which is a separate issue from the ruckman role, but obviously has a big impact on how we do at stoppages.

We stopped being a good stoppage team after Tippett went down in 2016. We haven't been able to resolve our ruck deficiency in the 3 years since and are placing our hopes on a ruckman who hasn't played in 2 years and has only proven that he's injury prone. Our chances of success following this low probability pathway are not good.

[MattW]

Here's a very handy round up of who's in the market: What are they worth? Kelly, Coniglio, Martin and all the top trade targets - AFL.com.au.

Quite a few worth considering including Francis and Keath as KPD types, and various inside mids including Brayden Sier.

They suggest Zak Jones is worth only mid second round pick. If that is the case I think he's worth more to us and we should not trade him. However maybe the decision is not in our hands. I'll be sorry to see him leave for a second round pick. That's less than we paid for him before investing years of development with him just coming into his prime. Plus his age/experience profile is exactly the type that are a bit thin on the ground for us at the moment and we need to hang on to.

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Jinx!

Right on. Jones is trade for a first round pick or re-sign.

[Mr Magoo]

I agree that what I am proposing is continuing with a Sinclair type ruckman at stoppages. I also agree that it hasn't worked, yet. We don't have all the pieces in place yet, or developed enough, to change from a stoppage to a turnover team, more in line with Richmond of WB.

I'm suggesting that we should stop chasing a player that would enable us to compete against Max Gawn and Brodie Grundy, and accept that the ruck is not our strong point. We should rather turn our attention to our developing strengths, which will be a game based on pressure and speed of ball movement. We also need to get back to where we once were in contested possession, which is a separate issue from the ruckman role, but obviously has a big impact on how we do at stoppages.

We stopped being a good stoppage team after Tippett went down in 2016. We haven't been able to resolve our ruck deficiency in the 3 years since and are placing our hopes on a ruckman who hasn't played in 2 years and has only proven that he's injury prone. Our chances of success following this low probability pathway are not good.

I do agree that the utility of chasing a top line ruckman is not as beneficial as a top line midfielder or two but freeing up Knoll , Cameron and Naismith would give us little extra salary space and while it may free up spots , the retirement of McVeigh, Jack , Grundy and possibly Smith will do far more in this regard.

If you consider that those four will go and it is likely two or three of the lower levels /rookies will also be delisted , it wont really hurt our list to keep some faith in Naismith and one of Knoll or Cameron at little cost. A fit Naismith rotating with a fit Sinclair is a very compelling paring in my view but as we have seen the likelihood of both on the park at the same time is low so you need either McLean, Knoll, Cameron or Amartey to come good soon. We could probably lose one of them at the end of the year but I think its a little early to lock in McLean and get rid of the rest.

[Jeynez]

Right on. Jones is trade for a first round pick or re-sign.

If Jones does decide he wants a trade back to Vic, we should be demanding for a player who can slot straight into our best 22. For example, Jones for Sier (plus a swap of picks).
We have a very young, talented list already, and a (likely) Top 5 draft pick to come. We should be targeting ready made players.