2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ludwig]

Here is the article, which says they intend to stop Swans style pick swapping, but doesn’t explain how they’d identify it as different from other pick swaps.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/...10-p525yi.html

The new rule will be that if the Swans are doing the pick swap, then it's illegal, otherwise it's okay.

Lachie Ash is the player we need: we need speed of the half back line, where most goals are set up from nowadays.

186cm/80kg
Vic Country/Murray Bushrangers
Defender

Ash brings the dash. The speedy half-back lights up games with his line-breaking pace from defence. We saw that during the carnival at the MCG against Vic Metro when he darted through traffic on an 80-metre run, and again in the frantic final quarter win over South Australia, when it was Ash's brilliant get-and-go that kept Country in the game. Ash is strong and clever and can also shut down an opponent in a role that is highly regarded by AFL clubs.

I wouldn't mind getting Lachie Ash. He looks to be a great prospect. But we have plenty of young players that have similar qualities: Stoddart (who has been playing that role in the NEAFL and doing great; on the verge of senior selection), Ling, McInerney and the rookies Reynolds and Tucker.

And there is talk that God Coast will get a priority pick but will have to use it on mature players.

They have enough young kids, but it the retention of those kids which is the problem.

We have lots of players we can send north; Fox, Smith, Rose etc.

Anything to get another first rounder!

I don't think they are talking about trading the #1 pick for Fox, Smith or Rose. It's more like Luke Parker or Isaac Heeney that they would have in mind.

[Nico]

Read Judd's comment re interim coach David Teague. Quoted as saying he had no chance and they don't want a coach with trainer wheels on. Silly stuff. Even if true you don't have to say it and crush the guy who the players seem to be playing for. Let him apply and see what he has. Support him publically but don't make any commitment.

He's has always been given eveything on a plate. It shows in his aloof and entitled attitude. Thankfully we don't have people like that at the Swans.

Maybe he just has no idea. So Carlton go for another senior coach who is past it. Their coaching selections of late have been poor. Lets hope they stuff it up again. Carlton's problems seem to stem from the top.

[liz]

I wouldn't mind getting Lachie Ash. He looks to be a great prospect. But we have plenty of young players that have similar qualities: Stoddart (who has been playing that role in the NEAFL and doing great; on the verge of senior selection), Ling, McInerney and the rookies Reynolds and Tucker.

I don't think they are talking about trading the #1 pick for Fox, Smith or Rose. It's more like Luke Parker or Isaac Heeney that they would have in mind.

I think that demonstrates that giving them the number one pick to acquire mature aged talent isn't a great option. There aren't many players for whom that is a fair trade (or for whom the releasing club and the Suns would both think is a fair trade). The very best players are worth more than pick 1, while the majority of solid players in their prime are worth somewhat less. I think they'd be better off giving the Suns a pick (or two, either two this year or one this and a future pick) midway through the first round - say between the finalists and non-finalists. Those would be tasty enough picks to get clubs thinking of letting a top 10, but not top 5, player on their list go. Though the player themselves still has to want to go, so the AFL might have to throw some salary cap concessions in too.

Completely agree with you on the fact we have lots of that kind of player already developing and showing signs. If Ash is the player the Swans chose with their pick, it needs to be because he's the one they think is the best prospect, not because of the role he plays.

[707]

Pick 1 does nothing for GC, they need solid mature players to lead the promising kids they have.

Spot on Liz, two picks 11 & 12 plus an extra say $400k/pa in the cap for three years to use on two mature players. Means someone like for example, Jones, could decide he wants to get three years at the Suns at $200k more per season than he can get with us or in Melbourne. We of course say pick 11, yep we're good with that.

The Suns need dramatic immediate and ongoing help, like the above. Repeat it again next year if needed until the go home cycle is broken.

[Nico]

Pick 1 does nothing for GC, they need solid mature players to lead the promising kids they have.

Spot on Liz, two picks 11 & 12 plus an extra say $400k/pa in the cap for three years to use on two mature players. Means someone like for example, Jones, could decide he wants to get three years at the Suns at $200k more per season than he can get with us or in Melbourne. We of course say pick 11, yep we're good with that.

The Suns need dramatic immediate and ongoing help, like the above. Repeat it again next year if needed until the go home cycle is broken.

But where do they find those players? Good solid players are retained by clubs, but they will let their fringe players go.

[liz]

But where do they find those players? Good solid players are retained by clubs, but they will let their fringe players go.

Most likely players who are out of contract. As 707 mentions, someone like Jones. Maybe we wouldn't get pick 11 for him in a straight swap. Maybe we'd have to throw another player in too, or give another pick back, but he's the kind of player for whom a deal involving pick 11 could be structured, but a deal involving pick 1 couldn't be.

Of course the Swans would probably prefer to keep Jones, but if Gold Coast can offer him significantly more salary than the Swan can, he might take that decision away from the club.

There are similar level of players at other clubs out of contract. Say Greenwood at Adelaide (as just one off the top of my head). Gold Coast probably need three or so of this level of player. The problem is that even if they can offer them $200k more in salary, it possibly won't be enough to lure players who'd rather be playing in competitive teams. It's a hard problem to solve.

[707]

Not quite the thread for it but whilst we are talking GCS, Isaac Rankine the number 2 pick from last year has signed on for another two years, that's great news for GC.

Now up to the AFL to do something significant and meaningful for them and do it quickly, well before the trade period.

Hugh Greenwood mentioned by Liz as a good player for GC to target, right on cue news just broke that Hawks are sniffing around :-(

[Meg]

OK, surprised at that as I thought the Cats had offered him a year. Get the view from recent comments from Longmire that he thinks he's only just finding his way after an interrupted pre-season, so may yet get another year(if horse is still coach!). Guess next few months will tell the story.

I think Menzel was delisted by the Cats - which is why he was prepared to accept a one-year ‘trial’ (my word) contract with us.

Pity that he had to have surgery so no pre-season training. Has made it difficult to judge his value. I still have hope he might be given a second year, he can kick goals and we need more of that.

[S.S. Bleeder]

OK, surprised at that as I thought the Cats had offered him a year. Get the view from recent comments from Longmire that he thinks he's only just finding his way after an interrupted pre-season, so may yet get another year(if horse is still coach!). Guess next few months will tell the story.

Correct. The cats offered him a one year deal too. I think he could see the writing on the wall and chose to move to Sydney despite the contract lengths being the same.

[S.S. Bleeder]

Lachie Ash is the player we need: we need speed of the half back line, where most goals are set up from nowadays.

186cm/80kg
Vic Country/Murray Bushrangers
Defender

Ash brings the dash. The speedy half-back lights up games with his line-breaking pace from defence. We saw that during the carnival at the MCG against Vic Metro when he darted through traffic on an 80-metre run, and again in the frantic final quarter win over South Australia, when it was Ash's brilliant get-and-go that kept Country in the game. Ash is strong and clever and can also shut down an opponent in a role that is highly regarded by AFL clubs.

I suggested a few months ago that we needed that type of player but was ridiculed by many because we already had Ling, Stoddart, O'Riodan, et al. My understanding is that they were recruited moreso for the wing and half forward.

I think you are right but I see our greater need being that of a gun inside midfielder, especially one with explosive acceleration. Rowbottom is looking good but we can't rely on the one player to bare that burden for the next decade.

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And there is talk that God Coast will get a priority pick but will have to use it on mature players.

They have enough young kids, but it the retention of those kids which is the problem.

We have lots of players we can send north; Fox, Smith, Rose etc.

Anything to get another first rounder!

Would you give up a first rounder for any of them?

[Markwebbos]

Correct. The cats offered him a one year deal too. I think he could see the writing on the wall and chose to move to Sydney despite the contract lengths being the same.

My understanding is the Cats initially offered Menzel a one year deal, then withdrew it and ultimately delisted him.

[Nico]

Most likely players who are out of contract. As 707 mentions, someone like Jones. Maybe we wouldn't get pick 11 for him in a straight swap. Maybe we'd have to throw another player in too, or give another pick back, but he's the kind of player for whom a deal involving pick 11 could be structured, but a deal involving pick 1 couldn't be.

Of course the Swans would probably prefer to keep Jones, but if Gold Coast can offer him significantly more salary than the Swan can, he might take that decision away from the club.

There are similar level of players at other clubs out of contract. Say Greenwood at Adelaide (as just one off the top of my head). Gold Coast probably need three or so of this level of player. The problem is that even if they can offer them $200k more in salary, it possibly won't be enough to lure players who'd rather be playing in competitive teams. It's a hard problem to solve.

Greenwood is a 26 year old fringe player. Just as I said; clubs are happy to offload these players for a high draft pick.

[S.S. Bleeder]

My understanding is the Cats initially offered Menzel a one year deal, then withdrew it and ultimately delisted him.

That couldn't be the case if he was traded.

[Meg]

That couldn't be the case if he was traded.

Menzel wasn’t traded.

‘Menzel joined the Swans as a delisted free agent on a one-year deal during the off-season.’

Daniel Menzel - sydneyswans.com.au

[Markwebbos]

Menzel wasn’t traded.

‘Menzel joined the Swans as a delisted free agent on a one-year deal during the off-season.’

Daniel Menzel - sydneyswans.com.au

Thanks. Beat me to it Meg.

Menzel’s conversation with Cal(lum Sinclair) is worth a listen