#AFL Round 13 weekly discussion thread

[stellation]

Any thoughts on the Sydney Stack/Eddie Betts hug from last nights game?

Personally, I thought it was fantastic! Game was effectively over.....I don't get those on Twitter having a go at Stack. Considering the banter between he and Betts during the game re: Stack telling Betts "No special goals for you tonight" and Eddie promising him "I'll get one", it was almost inevitable. I don't think Hardwick would have a problem with it.

I thought it was wonderful. Sometimes wowzers just want to say wow.

[Blood Fever]

I thought it was wonderful. Sometimes wowzers just want to say wow.

Just saw vision of two blokes wearing vests saying Behaviour Awareness Officer walking around at Marvel Stadium
AFL now officially a clown show

[stevoswan]

Just saw vision of two blokes wearing vests saying Behaviour Awareness Officer walking around at Marvel Stadium
AFL now officially a clown show

Yes, I saw that too and also some patrons being evicted....and footage of the 'mild abuse police' menacingly walking up and down the aisles watching people....it was a farce. This league is going potty. Fair enough for racist abuse and aggressive swearing but I believe the crowds were doing a decent job of calling that out and having them evicted anyway. Typical knee jerk over the top reaction from a bunch of dumb suits.....

[Meg]

Ok, I’m going to disagree with BF and ss - and probably a majority.

As someone who always goes to test cricket and ODI matches at the SCG I am very used to security & police walking up and down the aisles. And I don’t have any problem with it.

It is very unpleasant to be sitting in a group of spectators, usually men fuelled by alcohol, who are yelling abuse at players and umpires, and sometimes at opposition fans as well. Remember the 2014 GF and the appalling behaviour of Hawthorn fans?

Everyone should be able to go to the footy, including families with children, without feeling intimidated. Umpires and players should not have to put up with abuse.

And why would fans who do neither of those things, who simply enthusiastically support their teams, feel threatened by the presence of security staff?

[Markwebbos]

I’m confused about this abuse. What is now unacceptable? Can you really not call an umpire a “bald headed flog” or “green maggot” Without being ejected? What happened to freedom of speech, or does it not exist at games of AFL?

Fans need to be able to express their opinions of players and umpires. Richard Hinds was on the money that the umpires are copping it for the constant tinkering of the AFL with the rules.

But if you can’t criticise an umpire, then in fact it’s the fans who copping it and left without a voice.

[Meg]

Can you really not call an umpire a “bald headed flog” or “green maggot” Without being ejected?

I didn’t follow that incident closely so correct me if this is wrong - but wasn’t the problem not so much what was said but that the umpire felt intimidated by the spectator running down to the fence and screaming those words at him close up?

[Markwebbos]

That’s the other question. Who decides / adjudicates?

The fan in question has denied moving out of their seat.

There needs to be natural justice.

[Blood Fever]

Ok, I’m going to disagree with BF and ss - and probably a majority.

As someone who always goes to test cricket and ODI matches at the SCG I am very used to security & police walking up and down the aisles. And I don’t have any problem with it.

It is very unpleasant to be sitting in a group of spectators, usually men fuelled by alcohol, who are yelling abuse at players and umpires, and sometimes at opposition fans as well. Remember the 2014 GF and the appalling behaviour of Hawthorn fans?

Everyone should be able to go to the footy, including families with children, without feeling intimidated. Umpires and players should not have to put up with abuse.

And why would fans who do neither of those things, who simply enthusiastically support their teams, feel threatened by the presence of security staff?

Security people I have no problem with in trouble spots. Orwellian thought police for minor cancelling is something else

- - - Updated - - -

Meant catcalling

[Legs Akimbo]

There is a line. 99 percent of people passionately support their team. Yelling, fist pumping, mild umpire name calling. It's all part of the experience. I've also seen fist fights and heard homophobic and racist remarks at the footy. People that behave like this should be banned because it is not part of footy or civil society, for that matter.

When you read this...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/have-we-really-got-to-this-footy-fans-clash-in-stands-at-carlton-v-bulldogs-match-20190616-p51y56.html

... it makes it seem like violence is out of control at the footy. It isn't. Going to the footy now is a very safe and non-confronting experience compared to 20 years ago.

The bigger problem feels like people being unsure, even afraid to barrack for their team because of threatening security people enforcing ambiguous rules no one asked for. The underlying reason is AFL over reacting to events because they are paranoid about their brand being tarnished. Agency effect too - people paid to enforce security always overreach.

In balance, and on principal, I'll accept that some people will cross the line occasionally if it means less quasi fascist thugs in uniforms prowling the stands.

I can't help but join the dots between the raids on journalists fron the feds, the head of home affairs intimidating a senator and a new job created called a Behaviour Awareness Officer. Civil liberties can and are being eroded.

Sign of the times.

[dimelb]

Ok, I’m going to disagree with BF and ss - and probably a majority.

As someone who always goes to test cricket and ODI matches at the SCG I am very used to security & police walking up and down the aisles. And I don’t have any problem with it.

It is very unpleasant to be sitting in a group of spectators, usually men fuelled by alcohol, who are yelling abuse at players and umpires, and sometimes at opposition fans as well. Remember the 2014 GF and the appalling behaviour of Hawthorn fans?

Everyone should be able to go to the footy, including families with children, without feeling intimidated. Umpires and players should not have to put up with abuse.

And why would fans who do neither of those things, who simply enthusiastically support their teams, feel threatened by the presence of security staff?

Couldn't agree more Meg. One of the things I have come to enjoy in going to matches is the sight of families coming to the footy, often with dad wearing one set of colours and mum wearing the other set, together with children who have chosen one side or t'other. If we descend into barbarism (like some club members I could mention) we will lose these people, which would do more to hurt the game than perhaps any other factor.

Another thing is the genuine badinage that goes on between followers of different clubs, and I emphatically do NOT mean swearing and abuse. I will never forget pushing out of my seat to escape from the debacle of our loss to Carlton two seasons ago and saying to one of their supporters as I pushed past, "Well done your blokes." He beamed and said "Thanks". That's a bit of trivia but I think it is important that we can connect at that level, even with a club for which I have no particular feeling. Mrs d habitually chats with people from other clubs sitting nearby and has never been met with anything other than appreciation.

And I love to see the onfield warriors express their respect for each other. It's a great gesture.

Violent and/or drunken abuse should be shut down. It happens when people pull out their mobiles and tell what's going on. I very much prefer that approach rather than just put up with it. That's a balanced approach by the AFL, and is a long way from the "good old days" when people pulled off fence pickets and set to, or a North granny pulled out her umbrella and tripped an umpire (there's a famous photo of that one).

[Boddo]

Like I’ve previously stated on here I follow my local side and don’t follow AFL much anymore, have over this weekend due to my side having a bye.

I stood/sat at our Grand Final last year cheering, complaining about umpiring decisions, fist pumping and the occasional exchange with the opposition supporters in a good fun way. This game involved us winning the unwinnable GF with the crowd storming onto the ground in excitement when the siren went. And watching a few games of AFL and reading a bit of media this weekend i realised there would have been a number of evictions from our GF.

It’s a sport, it’s not a quiet night at the opera with polite clapping and whispering to each other.

[Blood Fever]

Like I’ve previously stated on here I follow my local side and don’t follow AFL much anymore, have over this weekend due to my side having a bye.

I stood/sat at our Grand Final last year cheering, complaining about umpiring decisions, fist pumping and the occasional exchange with the opposition supporters in a good fun way. This game involved us winning the unwinnable GF with the crowd storming onto the ground in excitement when the siren went. And watching a few games of AFL and reading a bit of media this weekend i realised there would have been a number of evictions from our GF.

It’s a sport, it’s not a quiet night at the opera with polite clapping and whispering to each other.

You describe an atmosphere that has been a part of our community culture for many years. The sight of the Behaviour Awareness Officers sent a shiver up my spine. There have been measures in place for ages to deal with anti social behaviour and rightly so but this development is over the top. I had a similar reaction when I first saw the Border Patrol officers, dressed in black, walking around the CBD of Melbourne in numbers.

[Boddo]

You describe an atmosphere that has been a part of our community culture for many years. The sight of the Behaviour Awareness Officers sent a shiver up my spine. There have been measures in place for ages to deal with anti social behaviour and rightly so but this development is over the top. I had a similar reaction when I first saw the Border Patrol officers, dressed in black, walking around the CBD of Melbourne in numbers.

Who decides what’s anti social behaviour? Every normal person would agree swearing or physical interaction in a violent manner is definitely anti social but what about comments to umpires to indicate you don’t agree with their decision. I’ve yelled a number of times “ what game are you watching umpy”. A very small minority would say it’s anti social to criticise umpires in any way.

I’d say it’s not anti social but with the way you can report anti social behaviour at AFL games via text it becomes the minority decides what’s acceptable.

[Blood Fever]

Who decides what’s anti social behaviour? Every normal person would agree swearing or physical interaction in a violent manner is definitely anti social but what about comments to umpires to indicate you don’t agree with their decision. I’ve yelled a number of times “ what game are you watching umpy”. A very small minority would say it’s anti social to criticise umpires in any way.

I’d say it’s not anti social but with the way you can report anti social behaviour at AFL games via text it becomes the minority decides what’s acceptable.

It also begs the question about what type of person ends up working as a BAO? Also, what sort of training do they get and who provides it? Yelling out in disagreement at the umpire is part of the theatre of the game.

[Boddo]

It also begs the question about what type of person ends up working as a BAO? Also, what sort of training do they get and who provides it? Yelling out in disagreement at the umpire is part of the theatre of the game.

Cert 2 in security - crowd control. Having been involved in running sporting events in my previous sporting life it’s not hard to obtain. Most people who work in this field either are a gym junkie, uni student or just looking for any work. Most times it’s not a life long career, it’s a way to pay bills.

The issue is not them it’s the company running the security operation via the event co-ordinator that decides what’s acceptable or not acceptable. They outline pre event what’s acceptable and debrief after the event how they preformed.

Most times the organisation running the event outlines what they would like. In this instance it’d be the AFL. They can say they haven’t all they want but do people seriously believe companies running events don’t get a say in how their events are run in regards to safety and security? There would be clauses in their security management contracts that allows them a say in how crowd control is policed. And that clause will be used this week to change how crowds are managed from a security/safety point of view.

And secondly Marvel stadium management have indicated they’ve increased security. Who owns marvel?

Like I’ve said swearing and physical violence is just not on but if you take away the theatre of the game which includes crowds why would anyone go.