Changes for round 18 - Freo

[rb4x]

Can not see us winning this one. Aliir was well beaten by Kreuzer leading to us getting thrashed in the stoppages. How is he going to go against Sandilands, Darcy and Lobb. Would have played Knoll who has not being going too badly in the last couple of matches and rested (managed) one of the kids. McLean looks like he will be playing McCartins tall forward role so Tom could well have had a spell, Hayward is badly out of form and either Blakey or Florent could probably use a spell too. Big hard ground in Perth will test the youngsters so would have not minded if Rose, Menzel or even Jack got a game to rest them. Perhaps the MC read the reports that Sandilands and S Hill were unlikely and picked accordingly. At least Fyfe is out. I can see Walters, Mundy and the Hill brothers having a field day feeding off their dominant rucks.

[Ralph Dawg]

Can not see us winning this one. Aliir was well beaten by Kreuzer leading to us getting thrashed in the stoppages. How is he going to go against Sandilands, Darcy and Lobb. Would have played Knoll who has not being going too badly in the last couple of matches and rested (managed) one of the kids. McLean looks like he will be playing McCartins tall forward role so Tom could well have had a spell, Hayward is badly out of form and either Blakey or Florent could probably use a spell too. Big hard ground in Perth will test the youngsters so would have not minded if Rose, Menzel or even Jack got a game to rest them. Perhaps the MC read the reports that Sandilands and S Hill were unlikely and picked accordingly. At least Fyfe is out. I can see Walters, Mundy and the Hill brothers having a field day feeding off their dominant rucks.

With the massive ruck dominance Freo should have, they should win easily, especially at home. If they don't, every "pure" tap ruck should be delisted in the AFL!

[Ralph Dawg]

Aliir ( 195cm 97kg ) Sandi (211cm 119kg)
McKean (197 93). Darcy ( 202 113)
Reid ( 196 100 ). Lobb ( 206 106)
Boys v Men

[AB Swannie]

I’m confused. Did we lose last week because of Knoll/Amartey not playing or was it because of our rubbish skills, Hayward’s kicking for goal, Jack’s ineffectiveness, JPK getting too old, Mills not playing mid, Florent not developing, Ronke, or our game plan being too slow?

[caj23]

I’m confused. Did we lose last week because of Knoll/Amartey not playing or was it because of our rubbish skills, Hayward’s kicking for goal, Jack’s ineffectiveness, JPK getting too old, Mills not playing mid, Florent not developing, Ronke, or our game plan being too slow?

I think I've missed the point you're trying to make, but I don't think any defeat can ever be pinpointed to one single reason

[AB Swannie]

I think I've missed the point you're trying to make, but I don't think any defeat can ever be pinpointed to one single reason

Sorry, I was being facetious. There just seems to be many people suggesting that we are going to lose because the MC hasn’t picked Knoll or Amartey to ruck. Personally, I don’t think it matters who we pick for the ruck as we will be beaten here anyway. It is just a shame for Cameron that when his chance arises, he is also out injured. Any team who is playing their 4th choice ruck would be in trouble. However, especially with Fyfe out, we can still win or match clearances.

I am actually making the same point as you - the game is complicated and many areas for improvement. I am happy with the changes (apart from the forced ones) and am looking forward to seeing how Stoddart, in particular, goes.

[Ralph Dawg]

Sorry, I was being facetious. There just seems to be many people suggesting that we are going to lose because the MC hasn’t picked Knoll or Amartey to ruck. Personally, I don’t think it matters who we pick for the ruck as we will be beaten here anyway. It is just a shame for Cameron that when his chance arises, he is also out injured. Any team who is playing their 4th choice ruck would be in trouble. However, especially with Fyfe out, we can still win or match clearances.

I am actually making the same point as you - the game is complicated and many areas for improvement. I am happy with the changes (apart from the forced ones) and am looking forward to seeing how Stoddart, in particular, goes.

My point is we're screwed in the ruck if you look at the raw numbers and also respective ruck experience. Agree Amartey or Knoll are not going to change that.
I also agree there are many facets to a game if footy and it will be interesting to see how a team goes when they completely dominate the tap. Personally I feel the effect of first tap is overstated, hence my pessimism as to how affective Naismith will be when he comes back, especially if his all round game doesn't improve.

[Markwebbos]

Horse said after last week's defeat he'd like to go back to playing Aliir in defence and Reid up forward. I'm hoping he hasn't selected McLean as a replacement for Reid, but that they'll share the rucking duties.

There are lots of permutations: McCartin goes back and McLean takes his role and shares the ruck with Aliir. McLean plays back and rucks with Aliir etc.

Whoever rucks is going to lose the hitouts to their three-headed beast, but it doesn't mean we can't do what the Bulldogs and Richmond do and shark their taps.

I reckon having Clarke in and Fyfe out gives us a chance of winning some clearances (Hewett should be more focused on winning the ball that stopping an opponent). Not sure why Joey was so down last week. Reckon Clarke goes to Brad Hill, Joey / Hewett goes head to head with Mundy. Wonder if they'll put Fox on Walters?

One thought about our drop off in form (aside from it coinciding with the loss of Buddy and a ruckman) is that we are an extremely young side, similar in age to the Gold Coast, and young sides tend to tire as the year goes on.

[liz]

Horse said after last week's defeat he'd like to go back to playing Aliir in defence and Reid up forward. I'm hoping he hasn't selected McLean as a replacement for Reid, but that they'll share the rucking duties.

There are lots of permutations: McCartin goes back and McLean takes his role and shares the ruck with Aliir. McLean plays back and rucks with Aliir etc.

This highlights the challenge that the match committee faces.

We are going to get smashed in the ruck contests. It's hard to think anyone selected will be able to get a hand on the ball opposed to Sandilands, and they'll struggle up against Lobb or Darcy as well. But the solution employed for the last two weeks has also made us less effective in defence because we haven't had Aliir down there, and less effective in the forward line because Reid has spent limited time there (leaving very young, and inexperienced key forwards to compete with seasoned AFL defenders). This week our defence is even more vulnerable because we've lost Dawson, who's been largely playing down back in recent weeks and, while not really a key defender, is strong overhead.

So do you "sacrifice" a Knoll or Amartey (or McLean) against rucks they have no chance against, just so some structure can be restored to defence and the forward line. Or do you continue to use Reid and Aliir, in the ruck role, knowing they have a bit more experience of how to protect themselves, and also in the hope they can provide something around the ground as mobile ruckmen.

It's not an easy decision for the coaches to make. I think throwing the 197cm Amartey or McLean into the ruck against the Freo ruck brigade would be unfair on them. Maybe somewhat less unfair (physically) on Knoll but still a big ask for him. I reckon the selections indicate that Aliir will continue to do most of the ruckwork and Reid will continue to relieve him. McCartin may well get pushed back for a week to cover Dawson's role. McLean has thus been brought in to provide a second target in the forward line, to work alongside Blakey. It was probably a toss up between he and Amartey. Amartey is probably more capable of the spectacular but McLean more solid at the basics.

[707]

At least McLean is a big body, just legally bodying their three rucks will somewhat negate silver service, then it's just up to the on ballers to shark Freo's taps. Leaving Aliir and Reid in place strengthens both ends of the ground. Freo's mids are no world beaters without Fyfe.

[dimelb]

If we were seriously still aiming for a top 8 position, I might approve what the MC has done and use Aliir primarily as a ruckman. But I'm on the wrong side of the fence and I think we're not going to make the finals and believe it's a mistake at this stage to select as if we still had a chance.

To use Liz's words, I would sacrifice Knoll - but not Amartey - for the sake of restoring structure while giving him a taste of the big league. If we are to be a force next year it's vital that we keep using Aliir and Sam primarily as we have been up to the point where we lost Sinkers; they can both do a bit of fill-in, as they have been doing while spending most of their time with backs or forwards.

[Markwebbos]

If we were seriously still aiming for a top 8 position, I might approve what the MC has done and use Aliir primarily as a ruckman. But I'm on the wrong side of the fence and I think we're not going to make the finals and believe it's a mistake at this stage to select as if we still had a chance.

To use Liz's words, I would sacrifice Knoll - but not Amartey - for the sake of restoring structure while giving him a taste of the big league. If we are to be a force next year it's vital that we keep using Aliir and Sam primarily as we have been up to the point where we lost Sinkers; they can both do a bit of fill-in, as they have been doing while spending most of their time with backs or forwards.

I’m hoping McLean is going to spend significant time in the ruck. But it’s unlikely.

[rb4x]

Knoll is the only fit big body on oiur list full stop. Aliir, Reid, McLean, Amartey, McCartin are a reasonable size but not up to Darcy and Lobb, lets forget Sandilands. The two big advantages of playing Knoll would have been to retain our structure and to not get too upset if our ruckman gets injured.

[Swanny40519]

Knoll is the only fit big body on oiur list full stop. Aliir, Reid, McLean, Amartey, McCartin are a reasonable size but not up to Darcy and Lobb, lets forget Sandilands. The two big advantages of playing Knoll would have been to retain our structure and to not get too upset if our ruckman gets injured.

Agree 100%.

I am afraid that either Aliir and/or Reid will get a serious injury rucking that will impact not only this year but their pre season for next year. I recall when Goodes was rucking and injured his knee and Roos said he would never play him again in the ruck. Freo have some serious height around the ball and in their forward line which will certainly test our smaller defence.

[Blood Fever]

Agree 100%.

I am afraid that either Aliir and/or Reid will get a serious injury rucking that will impact not only this year but their pre season for next year. I recall when Goodes was rucking and injured his knee and Roos said he would never play him again in the ruck. Freo have some serious height around the ball and in their forward line which will certainly test our smaller defence.

Maybe Knoll is not up to it yet and would have embarrassed himself and the team.