Danny Frawley

[stevoswan]

Medically assisted suicide for terminal illnesses, that seems rational (particularly when you need a couple of doctors to assess and sign off).

Deliberately veering into a tree at 100km an hour ... when there is a chance you might survive (and be a massive mess as a result); not to mention potentially not considering the impact it will have on those nearest & dearest to you?

Only those who have got to that stage know what's going on in their minds.....whether it's rational or not, it is real and it is made at the height of one's fear and desperation. Judge we may but it is really not our place to do so.

I find it somewhat distasteful that eBay listings of signed Danny Frawley items has tripled since yesterday.

Humans will be humans.....we are an essentially selfish race. The state of our planet, socially, politically and environmentally, is testimony to this.

[bloodspirit]

This article on the ABC website today: R U OK co-founder Graeme Cowan shares his suicide note to help others - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation).

A couple of quotes:

"Mr Cowan said [his suicide] note appeared lucid because he had been dwelling on the thoughts for two years, but the reality was it was a sign of mental illness.

"I genuinely thought that my family would be better off without me, and that does show I wasn't entirely level headed. I know [now] that's so far from the truth."

[KTigers]

I think in the case of Annie's brother-in-law (I hope you don't mind me referring to him, Annie) & with Frawley, they were quite
open about their troubles. Both were involved in organisations dealing with men's mental health, but ultimately they still
took their own lives leaving families behind them. So it's not like open discussion is the cure. I'm sure it doesn't make
things worse though. Maybe a mix of open discussion, seeking help and some level of "sucking it up" is the way that people
with these sorts of battles keep going. Because most people with these troubles don't commit suicide, they do keep going.
Probably having a family that depends on them emotionally and financially is a reason why they do keep going in a lot of
cases. It's clearly a very complicated issue and what might work for one person won't for another. You can see why the
people left behind can get angry and confused though. They think "well, why wasn't I worth sticking around for?". I'd
imagine it would be a very difficult thing to deal with, and especially for children.

[AnnieH]

To watch the devastation left behind is the worst thing in the world.
I'm pretty sure we ALL know someone who have taken their own lives.
Open discussion is not the cure, but if it stops ONE person... let's talk!

[stevoswan]

I have been reading this thread with interest. I have delayed telling my story because frankly, it is emotionally hard for me to do so.

My youngest daughter has had mental health issues for over half her lifetime now and has attempted suicide on numerous occasions.....according to her, 16 times. The last attempt tragically left her a paraplegic (two years ago).

She now continues to 'soldier on', facing even more challenges now than she ever did before.

She has known all along how much her family loves her and that she has the unconditional support that comes with this love yet this has not been enough at times to save her from the dark thoughts of ending it all. When there is still no light at the end of the tunnel, one has nothing to aim for, to strive for.....to live for. It can be an unbearably lonely place, despite all the support that surrounds her.

She is often racked with thoughts of 'being a burden' to us all....no matter how much we reassure her that this is not the case. Fears of not ever achieving true happiness and meaning in her life.....coupled with the day to day struggle of her guilt and regret over her 'self inflicted' handicap and the inevitable and ultimately pointless, frustrating and destructive "if only I could turn back the hands of time" thought processes.

I do not judge her, I just love and support her the best I can, the best way I know how. Alas, sometimes a families love and support is just not enough. Sometimes, the 'black dogs' grip on one's mind is so great, so all encompassing, one can feel totally 'alone' and thoughts of others, of 'loved one's', fade behind a cloud of total and utter desperation and fear.

I have seen first hand what her life is like and I would not wish it on anyone......and I would never expect her to remain unhappy and without hope just to keep me and other loved one's from being sad! I still live every day in fear of 'that phone call'. If it comes to that, I will never judge her or think of her as selfish. Through my inevitable grief I would take solace that she was not suffering anymore and that it was her choice to make. It would be all I could do to survive emotionally.

We just all have to understand that no matter how much we love and support them, like the way those suffering the nightmare of mental health challenges can't control their own thoughts, we cannot control what they decide is the best destiny for them.....and that the thoughts behind that decision are so profound as to warrant carrying out what some consider to be 'a selfish act'.

As I said earlier, this 'final' decision is made 'at the height of one's fear and desperation'. A place of 'unbearable' existence. Unbearable. It is not for us to judge....all we can do, albeit painfully, is attempt to simply understand and accept a decision we frankly, have no control over.

It truly sucks but it is a reality of mental health.

[AnnieH]

Thanks Stevoswan for having the guts to share that.
We talk about it - so we can support each other in our turmoil and our grief.
With your love and support, I hope she one day comes out of the darkness.
xxx

[bloodspirit]

Wow stevo. Thanks for sharing your struggle. Sounds really tough, for all of you. I wish you all strength.

[Hotpotato]

Brave post Stevo, a very hard road for her every day.
My BIL is also a para (workplace accident).
He’s made it his mission to talk (professionally ) about Health and Safety all over the country.

[Sandridge]

Thank you for your courageous posts Stevo and Annie.

I hope that, in some small way, the cameraderie of the RWO community is of some comfort to you and any other members who are faced with such confronting problems.

[Ludwig]

That's a very sad story Stevo, and one I can empathize with.

During the time of Lance Franklin’s mental health problems, I disclosed that I had bipolar disorder and periods of depression, including severe depression 20 years ago. At that time, I went through a year when I could only think about suicide and the self-loathing for my inability to carry out the act. I was fortunate to have good friends who helped me get through the most difficult times.

With each occurrence of depression I turned over my life, leaving behind jobs, family and homes and sometimes countries as well. I restarted my life many times. These decisions to leave one life behind and start anew were influenced by the fact that my mother also suffered from mental illness and I grew up in home where her attempted suicides were an annual event. She made my father's life miserable, but he stuck by her nonetheless. After my father died, she went on to make my sister's life miserable. She lived to be 99 oddly enough. I never remember her being happy. I escaped from the circumstances of my life during these times of depression because I didn't want to hurt or bring more unhappiness to those closest to me. I call it self-banishment.

My ex-wife overdosed with sleeping pills during the last year of our marriage. She was in a coma for a week and barely pulled through. She's attempted suicide a number of times since, and I expect one day I will hear that she's succeeded. Her younger sister committed suicide on the first attempt, leaving behind a caring husband and 1 year old daughter.

Every depression has it's own particular circumstances. What I found odd was how I could go through most of my life making sound rational decisions, but when depression took over, I lost control of my thoughts and wanted to self-destruct. My depressions usually came at times when things were going generally well for me, but a compelling desire to destroy my life took over my mind. I was fully aware of it, but could do nothing to stop it. It's hard for those who have never had this experience to relate to how this can happen.

It's a bit of a joke with friends that have gone through some of this with me how I've always somehow managed to land back on my feet. I've been lucky that each manic emergence from depression was very positive for me (it's not for many bipolar sufferers) and gave me the energy and positivity to successfully restart my life.

Because I've been affected by mental illness is many ways, I've given a lot of thought over the years trying to identify the causes. From a personal standpoint, I came to understand my own particular case and managed to self-cure; I was able to stop SSRI anti-depressants in 2006 and have been free of these recurring bipolar episodes for 20 years. I wish my own personal pathway from depression could be available to others, but my solution is particular to myself and my own psychology and unlikely to be helpful to others. However, I believe I have developed some insights to why so many people have mental health issues these days.

There was an article on the ABC website titled ‘An astronomical rise in family violence and a legal system struggling to cope.’

We are confronted with a continual stream of news of racism and xenophobia emanating from places near and far. In the United States, we see this expressed by extreme violence against strangers who are perceived to be different from themselves by the perpetrators of these mass killing events. Closer to home, we have been reminded of the painful and destructive racism experienced by Adam Goodes.

What is the common thread that these have with the suicide of Danny Frawley? They all involve violence of some sort. In one case we have people striking out against those who are closest to them. In the case of racism and xenophobia, we have people striking out against those who are different and unrelated. In the case of Danny Frawley, we find a man who ended the turmoil in his mind by violence against himself.

What is rarely addressed is what the problem might be with our society that results in so much discontent that so many of us feel compelled to strike out against someone or something. We are told that through human ingenuity the world is ever progressing and life is improving. (A bit less of this going on in these times). We are presented in the media with many metrics that support this claim. But the metric that is missing is the one in our respective minds, often deeply suppressed, about how we view our own personal journey through life and how it measures up against the standards that are provided to us by those who control the metrics, the measurement system by which we are supposed to judge ourselves and others. Social media only exacerbates this dysfunction in society, providing more opportunities for comparison and confrontation.

We might recall that during the Lance Franklin episode how odd it seemd that someone who was one of the most successful and gifted people in Australia could have mental health issues. Anthony Bourdain's suicide seemed another particularly strange anomaly. And we can rightfully ask what these people had to be depressed about.

I believe we each have our own individual and very personal pathway to success and happiness. We live in a world where these parameters are defined for us from time of birth. One can be successful in the conventional meaning of the word, yet feel dreadfully unfulfilled in ways we are not even consciously aware of. This conflict can result in an unresolved disjunction in our psyche. In the more extreme cases, this can lead to hatred and violence toward others who we feel are the causative agents, or inwardly, where suicide marks the resolution of the disjunction.

Sadly, there are no easy solutions here. For many there seems to be no exit from this dilemma, as our social structure blocks all escape from the torment, even with the best of help from family, friends and professionals.

My own long and tumultuous navigation through mental health issues provides some hope that there can be a way through troubled waters, but it can be a long and difficult journey, with a lot of damage left in its wake.

Stevo, I send my best wishes and hope there is a way for your family to find some resolution that can ease the pain that you are going through.

And to Annie as well for sharing her experiences.

[stevoswan]

Thank you for your courageous posts Stevo and Annie.

I hope that, in some small way, the cameraderie of the RWO community is of some comfort to you and any other members who are faced with such confronting problems.

It certainly is Sandridge. Thanks.

I'll also thank KTigers for his thoughtful PM, which I attempted five times to reply to without success.

That's a very sad story Stevo, and one I can empathize with.

During the time of Lance Franklin’s mental health problems, I disclosed that I had bipolar disorder and periods of depression, including severe depression 20 years ago. At that time, I went through a year when I could only think about suicide and the self-loathing for my inability to carry out the act. I was fortunate to have good friends who helped me get through the most difficult times.

With each occurrence of depression I turned over my life, leaving behind jobs, family and homes and sometimes countries as well. I restarted my life many times. These decisions to leave one life behind and start anew were influenced by the fact that my mother also suffered from mental illness and I grew up in home where her attempted suicides were an annual event. She made my father's life miserable, but he stuck by her nonetheless. After my father died, she went on to make my sister's life miserable. She lived to be 99 oddly enough. I never remember her being happy. I escaped from the circumstances of my life during these times of depression because I didn't want to hurt or bring more unhappiness to those closest to me. I call it self-banishment.

My ex-wife overdosed with sleeping pills during the last year of our marriage. She was in a coma for a week and barely pulled through. She's attempted suicide a number of times since, and I expect one day I will hear that she's succeeded. Her younger sister committed suicide on the first attempt, leaving behind a caring husband and 1 year old daughter.

Every depression has it's own particular circumstances. What I found odd was how I could go through most of my life making sound rational decisions, but when depression took over, I lost control of my thoughts and wanted to self-destruct. My depressions usually came at times when things were going generally well for me, but a compelling desire to destroy my life took over my mind. I was fully aware of it, but could do nothing to stop it. It's hard for those who have never had this experience to relate to how this can happen.

It's a bit of a joke with friends that have gone through some of this with me how I've always somehow managed to land back on my feet. I've been lucky that each manic emergence from depression was very positive for me (it's not for many bipolar sufferers) and gave me the energy and positivity to successfully restart my life.

Because I've been affected by mental illness is many ways, I've given a lot of thought over the years trying to identify the causes. From a personal standpoint, I came to understand my own particular case and managed to self-cure; I was able to stop SSRI anti-depressants in 2006 and have been free of these recurring bipolar episodes for 20 years. I wish my own personal pathway from depression could be available to others, but my solution is particular to myself and my own psychology and unlikely to be helpful to others. However, I believe I have developed some insights to why so many people have mental health issues these days.

There was an article on the ABC website titled ‘An astronomical rise in family violence and a legal system struggling to cope.’

We are confronted with a continual stream of news of racism and xenophobia emanating from places near and far. In the United States, we see this expressed by extreme violence against strangers who are perceived to be different from themselves by the perpetrators of these mass killing events. Closer to home, we have been reminded of the painful and destructive racism experienced by Adam Goodes.

What is the common thread that these have with the suicide of Danny Frawley? They all involve violence of some sort. In one case we have people striking out against those who are closest to them. In the case of racism and xenophobia, we have people striking out against those who are different and unrelated. In the case of Danny Frawley, we find a man who ended the turmoil in his mind by violence against himself.

What is rarely addressed is what the problem might be with our society that results in so much discontent that so many of us feel compelled to strike out against someone or something. We are told that through human ingenuity the world is ever progressing and life is improving. (A bit less of this going on in these times). We are presented in the media with many metrics that support this claim. But the metric that is missing is the one in our respective minds, often deeply suppressed, about how we view our own personal journey through life and how it measures up against the standards that are provided to us by those who control the metrics, the measurement system by which we are supposed to judge ourselves and others. Social media only exacerbates this dysfunction in society, providing more opportunities for comparison and confrontation.

We might recall that during the Lance Franklin episode how odd it seemd that someone who was one of the most successful and gifted people in Australia could have mental health issues. Anthony Bourdain's suicide seemed another particularly strange anomaly. And we can rightfully ask what these people had to be depressed about.

I believe we each have our own individual and very personal pathway to success and happiness. We live in a world where these parameters are defined for us from time of birth. One can be successful in the conventional meaning of the word, yet feel dreadfully unfulfilled in ways we are not even consciously aware of. This conflict can result in an unresolved disjunction in our psyche. In the more extreme cases, this can lead to hatred and violence toward others who we feel are the causative agents, or inwardly, where suicide marks the resolution of the disjunction.

Sadly, there are no easy solutions here. For many there seems to be no exit from this dilemma, as our social structure blocks all escape from the torment, even with the best of help from family, friends and professionals.

My own long and tumultuous navigation through mental health issues provides some hope that there can be a way through troubled waters, but it can be a long and difficult journey, with a lot of damage left in its wake.

Stevo, I send my best wishes and hope there is a way for your family to find some resolution that can ease the pain that you are going through.

And to Annie as well for sharing her experiences.

Amazing post Ludwig and thank you for sharing it. More power to you.

[dimelb]

Thank you Annie, stevoswan, and Ludwig, as well as others who have responded. I am encouraged by your honesty and your capacity to reflect on your pain with the level of constructiveness you all seem to manage in one way or another. More power to your arms, all of you.
My younger brother died some years ago and it is only recently that I came to understand that it was probably a suicide, and that the main reason was his incapacity to accept and live through his homosexuality, of which I had no grasp until comparatively recently. My younger son is also gay, but his situation could hardly be more different, with a partner made to order, a rewarding career and a very positive relationship with both parents and siblings.

[AnnieH]

Thanks for having the guts to share Ludwig.
You're a tops person. I love having you here.
Don't leave me.
xxx

[moocher]

This is an extraordinary thread. I’m so impressed with the content. I’m a member of a number of sites across two footy codes and none have the sophistication, insight and depth of analysis as this one.
I lost my SIL almost 12 months ago leaving my daughter in shock with a baby trying to understand what happened. He had his first child who he adored, a job he loved and they had just purchased a house. He suffered from depression rarely but when he did he was totally irrational and capable of anything. At other times he was a warm, caring human being and very loveable.
So thanks again for the standard of content. No wonder JD is contemplating a move to the Swans

[bloodspirit]

Thanks for having the guts to share Ludwig.
You're a tops person. I love having you here.
Don't leave me.
xxx

Can't say it better than that. Me too.