Pre-season 2020

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  • Scottee
    Senior Player
    • Aug 2003
    • 1585

    Originally posted by liz
    The comments already posted ram home why I've been reluctant to post anything re the game. It's incredibly hard to get much of a gauge at a ground with no viewing angle (especially height), and where the players are coming on and off the ground so often you wonder if they're not expending more energy being interchanged than they are actually hunting the ball. I suspect anyone watching could have found evidence to support their own biases and hunches. I know I did. But for what it's worth, some random comments:

    - I thought both our backlines and forward lines spent the early part of the match resembling groups of players who'd never met before, let alone spent the summer training. This was illustrated by the ease with which the Giants scored three goals before the Swans seemed to have realised the game had started. And once, when the ball did get into our forward line, it was extracted with ease by the Giants as Sinclair remained rooted to the ground in the goal square, Blakely desperately (and in vain) tried to cover three Giants opponents on his own, and the array of smalls were nowhere to be seen.

    - Aliir looked very hesitant and shaky in that first quarter, and somewhat into the second. His hands were fumbly and he was slow to move to contests. To his credit, he got much better as the game wore on, and towards the end of the ground was doing a decent job of marshalling the defence in the absence of Rampe and Mills (who played early but I think came off at half-time).

    - The players who showed most purpose (to me) right from the start were Papley, Mills and Florent. Papley wasn't perfect with his disposals but couldn't fault his work rate or intent. Mills was the calmest head in a dishevelled backline.

    - With both JPK and Hewett starting on the bench (and Parker completely absent), it was evident early that the coaches were putting a lot of trust in a young midfield (or just wanting to see how they could cope). I couldn't fault the work rate of Florent and Rowbottom, but they found it tough going against pretty much the Giants' A team. Florent was the more effective of the two - as one would expect - but I don't think he got many easy possessions. Stephens, too, was thrown into the thick of things right from the start. He didn't look timid, but I reckon he got a lesson in how much less time you get at AFL level - even in a scratch match - to dispose of the ball. He was set upon time after time as soon as he took possession.

    - It's hard to fashion a forward line where the main tall target would fall over in a stiff breeze. That said, early signs are that Blakey won't be suffering any second year blues. If I have a criticism of his game, it's that he tried to body defenders too often, and almost always came off second best (though he did score the first Swans goal from a free-kick where he was forced forward in a pack - I'd have needed to see a replay to determine if he was legitimately taken out well before the ball arrived, or if it was a "Ben Brown" free, without the over-exaggeration of Brown).

    - Blakey's best moments came when he found a bit of space and used his speed. He scored one goal beating all his opponents running into an almost vacant forward line after Papley took a good mark in the pocket from a great kick upfield - it might have been Stephens who delivered it.) And later in the game, he soccered the ball to away from opponents and used his pace to gather it and set up a scoring opportunity for Hayward - who missed.

    - Hayward made a bit of a habit of missing, and from shots that weren't gimmes but not especially difficult either. I reckon he kicked at least three behinds but it could have been more. The good sign is that, conversion aside, he was lively and dangerous.

    - Someone above commented that they liked Taylor's game. I can't say I was enthusiastic, though he had some good moments in the final quarter. He looks even plumper than he did in the photos from early pre-season.

    - I thought Naismith looked decent enough for a player who's missed two seasons. But then I've been a fan of his since his early NEAFL days and I remain cautiously optimistic of what he can deliver. True, he did given away a goal after knocking the ball straight through the posts for a rushed behind. In his defence, the stoppage was a long way away from the goal, and he could have argued he was just knocking it away from the contest (forcefully) rather than deliberately trying to rush it. Regardless, it was a good match to learn the lesson.

    - The Giants are a team of physical beasts - Taranto, Coniglio, Greene etc. Even their small players, like Langford and Daniels, are balls of muscle compared to our similar players. Papley, for example, is a good size now for his height, and looks to be at a very comfortable playing weight - ie you wouldn't want him to get any bigger - but looked positively lightweight compared to the Giants' similarly heighted players.

    - Given that, the young Swans did a good job in making the game a good scrap after the opening ten minutes. Given the Giants scored the first three goals (and, I think, the last three) the Swans did well to match them for the middle part of the game. I'm not sure how long the stars of the Giants team stayed on - I suspect few of them were there after half-time, and I didn't see Greene do much other than wave his arms around, so maybe they weren't taking it too seriously, but the effort from the young guys can't be faulted. Rowbottom and Florent may have been swamped every time they took possession, but they gave back as good as they received. And Bell, Warner and Wicks joined in the tackle fest with intent. Whether these three have much more to offer (at this stage) than tackling-rams, I am not sure, but the intent was there.

    - Conditions certainly assisted in bringing the Giants down to the Swans' scrapping level. Intermittent drizzly rain made it hard to handle the ball cleanly.

    - As something of an antidote to the skinniness of the NEAFL/injured players who sat on the sidelines watching (Ling, Stoddart, Foot, ET) and many of those who played (Blakey, McInerney, Ronke, and somewhat Hayward, Rowbottom and Florent - at least compared to their opponents), BOC looks to be a big lad. Also a constantly smiling lad.

    - I was amused (kinda) when I noticed that the two runners for the sides were both ex-Collingwood players. Both ex-Collingwood FS selections, no less. Their respective associations with the Swans and Giants aren't recent, so I guess it wasn't "news", just some mild amusement. If you'd told a stranger that one of the two retired a decade or so ago, and the other was still an active player on his club's list, I don't think many would have guessed correctly which was which. Davis looks in far better physical shape than he did for much of his playing career (and yes, I know he's still been playing some elite sport), while Shaw looks even more awkward as a runner dressed in lilac than he does in his Giants gear.

    - I did a double take at one stage, looking at number two running back into position. His height, build, hair colour and facial hair made him look very similar to he 2018 version of the last player to wear number 2 for the club. Somewhat bittersweet. But I reckon he could be a good addition to the side, especially with Melican continuing to struggle with injury.

    - The midfleid/defence debate around Mills will, no doubt, continue until either he moves into the midfield or he retires, but I think an equally valid debate exists around Dawson. I get that his marking skills and long kicking are assets in defence, but I am not convinced that's where we get most value from him. He spent most of Saturday in defence, and I thought he looked a bit sluggish and only moderately effective. In the final quarter, he was either moved up the ground, or just wandered up there of his own accord, and immediately had an impact keeping the ball in our forward line and creating a couple of scoring opportunities. The beauty of him is that he can play pretty much anywhere on the ground, but I hope he doesn't get pigeon-holed as a half-back flanker. He could be so much more.
    Thanks Liz. You are a font of football wisdom!
    We have them where we want them, everything is going according to plan!

    Comment

    • Molly dooker
      Lifer!
      • Jun 2007
      • 247

      Originally posted by TheBloods
      The conspiracy theorist in me believes there is something fishy going on with two of our talls in Buddy and McLean. I noticed throughout the Swans media team's coverage of the community camps that every listed Swan was involved - except those two. I know these community camps are held in the highest regard by the club, which is why the entire squad is usually involved. So there is obviously a very significant reason those two were not part of it, and I'm stumped as to what it could be.
      Yep, your wife about to give birth any second would probably be enough justification for o n e of them me thinks.

      Comment

      • stevoswan
        Veterans List
        • Sep 2014
        • 8560

        Originally posted by TheBloods
        The conspiracy theorist in me believes there is something fishy going on with two of our talls in Buddy and McLean. I noticed throughout the Swans media team's coverage of the community camps that every listed Swan was involved - except those two. I know these community camps are held in the highest regard by the club, which is why the entire squad is usually involved. So there is obviously a very significant reason those two were not part of it, and I'm stumped as to what it could be.
        The bigger question is "What were you doing up and on your computer at 4:27am TheBloods?"

        Comment

        • Mel_C
          Veterans List
          • Jan 2003
          • 4470

          Originally posted by TheBloods
          The conspiracy theorist in me believes there is something fishy going on with two of our talls in Buddy and McLean. I noticed throughout the Swans media team's coverage of the community camps that every listed Swan was involved - except those two. I know these community camps are held in the highest regard by the club, which is why the entire squad is usually involved. So there is obviously a very significant reason those two were not part of it, and I'm stumped as to what it could be.
          Can't speak for McLean but Buddy's wife gave birth on Sunday so he obviously wanted to be with his pregnant wife.

          Comment

          • TheBloods
            Suspended by the MRP
            • Feb 2020
            • 2047

            Originally posted by stevoswan
            The bigger question is "What were you doing up and on your computer at 4:27am TheBloods?"
            Hey not everyone can have one of those nice 9 to 5 jobs!

            Comment

            • Nico
              Veterans List
              • Jan 2003
              • 11339

              Hayward still missing easy shots at goal. His excuse last year was a crook hip. Who can forget his woeful miss from the goal square against Essendon at the "G". Enough excuses, maybe he is just a poor kick for goal. This year will show if he is over rated or not. He needs to get a heck of a lot more of the footy and improve his forward defensive skills big time.
              http://www.nostalgiamusic.co.uk/secu...res/srh806.jpg

              Comment

              • Mark26
                Senior Player
                • Jan 2017
                • 1535

                Originally posted by Nico
                Hayward still missing easy shots at goal. His excuse last year was a crook hip. Who can forget his woeful miss from the goal square against Essendon at the "G". Enough excuses, maybe he is just a poor kick for goal. This year will show if he is over rated or not. He needs to get a heck of a lot more of the footy and improve his forward defensive skills big time.
                Apparently this has been the first time Hayward has had a full preseason and he's ready to go. Let's hope it's just nerves or him being over-excited. I'm hoping he has a ripper season along with some others.

                Comment

                • stevoswan
                  Veterans List
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 8560

                  Originally posted by TheBloods
                  Hey not everyone can have one of those nice 9 to 5 jobs!
                  I should have realised.....and I'm a nurse (but day shift only).

                  Comment

                  • magic.merkin
                    Senior Player
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 1199

                    Originally posted by Nico
                    Hayward still missing easy shots at goal. His excuse last year was a crook hip. Who can forget his woeful miss from the goal square against Essendon at the "G". Enough excuses, maybe he is just a poor kick for goal. This year will show if he is over rated or not. He needs to get a heck of a lot more of the footy and improve his forward defensive skills big time.
                    Bit harsh, he was consistent his first 2 years kicking for goal. converted 62% of the time. Last year was 42%. So he has been accurate, unless he's got the yips i can't see why he does't capture the form he had as novice when he has continuity in his footy and body.

                    Comment

                    • Nico
                      Veterans List
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 11339

                      Originally posted by magic.merkin
                      Bit harsh, he was consistent his first 2 years kicking for goal. converted 62% of the time. Last year was 42%. So he has been accurate, unless he's got the yips i can't see why he does't capture the form he had as novice when he has continuity in his footy and body.
                      Just an observation, but he still doesn't get anywhere near enough possessions, and doesn't get where the ball is at anywhere near often enough. By the way any of us would have kicked that goal with a broken leg.
                      http://www.nostalgiamusic.co.uk/secu...res/srh806.jpg

                      Comment

                      • SeanM
                        Warming the Bench
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 304

                        Originally posted by liz
                        The comments already posted ram home why I've been reluctant to post anything re the game. It's incredibly hard to get much of a gauge at a ground with no viewing angle (especially height),
                        I felt the same way. I was in line with the centre square and still found it hard to get a good view of all the play. I also struggle to focus on everything when I can see clearly. So hesitant to make any firm judgments.

                        - GWS started the game much better. They scored a few early goals getting it forward quickly off turnover. And initially were better when the ball hit the ground and linking with handballs around the contest. After that the rest of the game was more even and more of a grind. Our best period was the start of the fourth quarter where we were camped in their defensive 50 for a while and had a few gettable set shots. There was light rain during the third quarter.

                        - Papley, Hayward and Blakey looked dangerous as a unit throughout the game with their pace and skill. In the first half anything positive came from their ability to counter attack and run past the GWS defenders. I thought Papley looked good and we will miss him if eventually goes. Just quick reaction when the ball get near him and capable of picking it up and exploding. Blakey and Hayward made a few breakaway runs where they got behind the defence. And I feel this season they will worry defenders who have to mark them.

                        - In midfield I thought Kennedy and Rowbottom were solid throughout the game and stuck at it. At the contest they were always there to shut GWS down or try to win the ball. At the time I didn't think Florent was as consistent and surprised how many possessions he got. But he had flashier moments like being able to pick up a loose ball and burst forward out of the contest and go for a run.

                        - I didn't focus my attention on our defence. But Aliir seemed to do ok throughout the game. He took a few intercept marks and he had composure when the ball hit the ground.

                        - Of our newer players. Warner surprised me the most. He played inside mid mostly. He did the simple things right. He pressured, tackled and locked the ball in. He picked up loose balls and got a clean handball out. He took a few uncontested marks and made some simple passes. I am not saying it was a dominant performance. But I can see him playing well in the NEAFL and then playing a few AFL games off the bench as an inside mid probably later in the season.

                        - Stephens got involved. I saw him take a few possessions and make some tackles. But I agree he will take a while to get used to the pace of AFL football. There was moments he was about to make an attacking pass or start to make a run and he would get closed down. But that will only come with getting match experience at that level.

                        - I did not end up observing Gould too much because I end up focusing on the play rather than observing defenders off the ball. But I did see him and Wicks do a lengthy training drill with the coaches immediately after the game. They set up about five different coloured cones with a ball next to it arranged in a circle. The coach would call out a colour and they would race each other to the cone, the coach would then call another colour and they would have to change direction and sprint to that one. Eventually the coach would allow them to pick the ball up and the winner to the ball would pick it up and dispose of it under pressure. I assumed the drill was practicing tracking leads and being able to change direction and stay in the contest. But it was good signs that he was able to match Wicks who is quite quick.

                        - Of other fringe players. I remember Bell making a good driving tackle off half forward. Also Wicks looked good as a pressure forward using his agility and acceleration to run players down. I don't remember specific moments of Mcinerney on the wing. But I feel that will be his natural position longer term. I feel he has the natural tendancy to be defensively disciplined and scrap for the ball and then gradually develop his outside attacking game.
                        Last edited by SeanM; 26 February 2020, 11:32 PM.

                        Comment

                        • 707
                          Veterans List
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 6204

                          Nick Smith back in a part time coaching role. The website article says it's development coach with the Academy but the way I read it there also seems involvement with the main list.

                          Welcome back Nick, always under rated as a player but a valuable addition off field.

                          Comment

                          • TheBloods
                            Suspended by the MRP
                            • Feb 2020
                            • 2047

                            Originally posted by SeanM
                            I felt the same way. I was in line with the centre square and still found it hard to get a good view of all the play. I also struggle to focus on everything when I can see clearly. So hesitant to make any firm judgments.

                            - GWS started the game much better. They scored a few early goals getting it forward quickly off turnover. And initially were better when the ball hit the ground and linking with handballs around the contest. After that the rest of the game was more even and more of a grind. Our best period was the start of the fourth quarter where we were camped in their defensive 50 for a while and had a few gettable set shots. There was light rain during the third quarter.

                            - Papley, Hayward and Blakey looked dangerous as a unit throughout the game with their pace and skill. In the first half anything positive came from their ability to counter attack and run past the GWS defenders. I thought Papley looked good and we will miss him if eventually goes. Just quick reaction when the ball get near him and capable of picking it up and exploding. Blakey and Hayward made a few breakaway runs where they got behind the defence. And I feel this season they will worry defenders who have to mark them.

                            - In midfield I thought Kennedy and Rowbottom were solid throughout the game and stuck at it. At the contest they were always there to shut GWS down or try to win the ball. At the time I didn't think Florent was as consistent and surprised how many possessions he got. But he had flashier moments like being able to pick up a loose ball and burst forward out of the contest and go for a run.

                            - I didn't focus my attention on our defence. But Aliir seemed to do ok throughout the game. He took a few intercept marks and he had composure when the ball hit the ground.

                            - Of our newer players. Warner surprised me the most. He played inside mid mostly. He did the simple things right. He pressured, tackled and locked the ball in. He picked up loose balls and got a clean handball out. He took a few uncontested marks and made some simple passes. I am not saying it was a dominant performance. But I can see him playing well in the NEAFL and then playing a few AFL games off the bench as an inside mid probably later in the season.

                            - Stephens got involved. I saw him take a few possessions and make some tackles. But I agree he will take a while to get used to the pace of AFL football. There was moments he was about to make an attacking pass or start to make a run and he would get closed down. But that will only come with getting match experience at that level.

                            - I did not end up observing Gould too much because I end up focusing on the play rather than observing defenders off the ball. But I did see him and Wicks do a lengthy training drill with the coaches immediately after the game. They set up about five different coloured cones with a ball next to it arranged in a circle. The coach would call out a colour and they would race each other to the cone, the coach would then call another colour and they would have to change direction and sprint to that one. Eventually the coach would allow them to pick the ball up and the winner to the ball would pick it up and dispose of it under pressure. I assumed the drill was practicing tracking leads and being able to change direction and stay in the contest. But it was good signs that he was able to match Wicks who is quite quick.

                            - Of other fringe players. I remember Bell making a good driving tackle off half forward. Also Wicks looked good as a pressure forward using his agility and acceleration to run players down. I don't remember specific moments of Mcinerney on the wing. But I feel that will be his natural position longer term. I feel he has the natural tendancy to be defensively disciplined and scrap for the ball and then gradually develop his outside attacking game.
                            All perspectives are welcomed, sounded like an interesting day nonetheless.

                            I particularly like hearing that Kennedy was good in the midfield. Not because I doubt him, but because both he and Parker are still very clearly the driving forces of our team. From the many training reports this pre-season, the performances of young Swans like Stephens, Blakey, Rowbottom, Dawson, Warner and Florent have been noted as stand-outs, but in truth, it still looks very obvious (to me at least) that Kennedy and Parker will be major factors in our fortunes for 2020. Parker, had a delayed return to training due to injury before the break, and slotted straight back in and was his usual self in match sim. As fans we love to see the younger players shine, and a few of them have certainly made me feel enthusiastic about the upcoming season, but there is a reason those two are co-captains, and it's not just because of their relative experience.

                            As a side note, I secretly hope we rest Kennedy for a match in the first month so that he and Parker can celebrate their 200th and 250th together in round 5 in a derby at the SCG. What an amazing moment that would be

                            Comment

                            • The Big Cat
                              On the veteran's list
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 2356

                              Finally some sense! Cane Cornes has picked us to finish 8th. First time anyone has had us above about 13th.
                              Those who have the greatest power to hurt us are those we love.

                              Comment

                              • bloodspirit
                                Clubman
                                • Apr 2015
                                • 4448

                                Originally posted by The Big Cat
                                Finally some sense! Cane Cornes has picked us to finish 8th. First time anyone has had us above about 13th.
                                Surely not the same Kane Cornes so often disparaged and reviled on these pages? Where's the link? SEN?

                                Yes, here it is: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/02/...emiership-tip/.
                                All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

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