Horse was on Footy Classified

[barry]

Very wise words lately in this thread. It's the same Victorians that dismiss V'landys and the NRL who are actively working behind the scenes at every opportunity against the swans. And they have connections everywhere in NSW.

We, the swans, are also part of the problem. We need more NSW born and bred people in control. So often you met and AFL person in Sydney and they originate from Victoria. They want to create "little-victoria" in a pocket of Sydney. We need to create a NSW identity of what it means to play, like, and watch Aussie rules.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I was thinking of including "Swans continuing disinclination to draft Sydney kids" in the list of AFL missteps, but held back because while Hayes, McVeigh, Breust, Rampe were a while ago I'm not across underage footy.

But after reading Mr Magoo's post, maybe there is an ongoing problem, it just doesn't seem to make sense that the Swans kids can dominate but then go no further.

I've added it at #5

#1 Changing the plan and sending the Swans to Sydney unassisted must surely be #1
#2 The almost complete loss of the ACT
#3 Selling the Swans to a bunch of corporate cowboys that stuffed up the Swans in the late 80's
#4 Excluding the Rams for the TAC cup
#5 Swans continuing disinclination to draft Sydney kids
#6 The stupid (and short lived) NSW Scholarship Scheme
#7 The COLA cancellation didn't help

[TheBloods]

Having seen plenty of the Academy kids over the years, I remain unconvinced that they are actually any good, beyond serving the purpose of encouraging young NSW juniors to take up the code. There haven't been too many academy kids that I've rated as potential prospects for the highest level. Even recent kids to have gone through like Parks, Rayner, Ellem and Thorne didn't have 'afl star' written on them from observing. So I don't think it's quite as simple as the Swans taking more local kids - they have to actually be good enough, and the gulf between the best (Heeney, Mills, Blakey) and the rest is too sparse.

It makes me question the development within these academies themselves. All of the other academy lads beyond those three have not amounted to much. B. Jack, Davis, Foote, Brown, Bell... these are all local boys that we did take the punt on but got very little reward from. The academy has been talked up as a superstar factory, but is it possible that Heeney, Mills and Blakey still would have been great talents and high draft picks if they played juniors in Vic, SA or WA, and that maybe the academy isn't actually very good at developing players to be drafted??

[barry]

...,and that maybe the academy isn't actually very good at developing players to be drafted??

I think you are right.
Considering how long it's been running and how much has been spent, it doesn't seem to delivering.

[SeanM]

I think the point of the academy is that talented sydney kids don't get disadvantaged in their development compared to Victorian kids.

A kid growing up in Melbourne is more immersed in football culture. They are playing at lunchtime at school from a young age. They may play for their local team and their school team. There is more chance of having experienced coaches and talent development programs.

The academy gives the most talented kids regular access to coaches and training and a pathway into representative squads. If you take that away then it becomes more about luck whether someone like Heeney gets good local coaches up in Newcastle etc.

[SeanM]

I think it is about numbers as well. Last year there might have been 60-70 18yos drafted from the whole country. And of those a lot won't make much impact at afl level in their first two seasons. So I think it is unlikely for the academy to produce top players every single year. I don't think Bell and Wicks are doing too badly.

[barry]

I don't think anyone disputes the ideal and wants to drop academies. We want them to work better and deliver more.

[TheBloods]

I don't think anyone disputes the ideal and wants to drop academies. We want them to work better and deliver more.

+1 this.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I don't think anyone doubts that the Swans Academy has improved the standard of football in Sydney. But the question has been raised - what are the Swans getting from the investment?

Excluding Blakey who was always going to make an AFL list, so far 10 other Academy graduates have made it onto the Swans lists (Sam Naismith, Isaac Heeney, Callum Mills, Jordan Foote, Abe Davis, Jack Hiscox, Daniel Robinson, Jake Brown, James Bell and Sam Wicks.)
Excluding those whose fate is undecided, when Academy graduates do make it onto the list, 50% make worthy contributions - which seems a better strike rate than the draftee average.

So the quality seems about right, I don't think anyone expects the Academy to pop up a 300 game champion every year, at least for now - but is an average of 1 Academy kid making the Swans list per year an adequate return? Or should we be seeing more listings?

[TheBloods]

I don't think anyone doubts that the Swans Academy has improved the standard of football in Sydney. But the question has been raised - what are the Swans getting from the investment?

Excluding Blakey who was always going to make an AFL list, so far 10 other Academy graduates have made it onto the Swans lists (Sam Naismith, Isaac Heeney, Callum Mills, Jordan Foote, Abe Davis, Jack Hiscox, Daniel Robinson, Jake Brown, James Bell and Sam Wicks.)
Excluding those whose fate is undecided, when Academy graduates do make it onto the list, 50% make worthy contributions - which seems a better strike rate than the draftee average.

So the quality seems about right, I don't think anyone expects the Academy to pop up a 300 game champion every year, at least for now - but is an average of 1 Academy kid making the Swans list per year an adequate return? Or should we be seeing more listings?

If you are including Bell, Robinson and Foote on the grounds that they debuted, then sure. But they aren't any good. Two were delisted and the third won't be far behind. Granted Naismith is a hard one to read because he has missed so much footy, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement of the academy that it's only produced four decent-or-better players, three of whom are so naturally gifted it's hard to credit the academy for the players they are.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I was listing Bell as undecided, Foote as unsuccessful and Robinson as decent (ok I'm a soft marker).

Although Heeney (for example) is extremely naturally gifted and that makes possible to question the academies development of him on that basis - the guy himself has said on numerous occasions that without the academy he wouldn't be an afl player at all. Sam Naismith says he would have gone to Union without the academy - so there's no doubt it attracts the gifted.

I appreciate your doubt on the development of players, but as it's the only fair metric that I can think of - How many listed players each year do you suggest would be a pass mark for the academy?

[TheBloods]

I was listing Bell as undecided, Foote as unsuccessful and Robinson as decent (ok I'm a soft marker).

Although Heeney (for example) is extremely naturally gifted and that makes possible to question the academies development of him on that basis - the guy himself has said on numerous occasions that without the academy he wouldn't be an afl player at all. Sam Naismith says he would have gone to Union without the academy - so there's no doubt it attracts the gifted.

I appreciate your doubt on the development of players, but as it's the only fair metric that I can think of - How many listed players each year do you suggest would be a pass mark for the academy?

I'm not sure regarding the exact number that would be a 'pass mark.' I just know it's got to be more than four in a decade.

[Markwebbos]

Isn’t the Academy about establishing a bulkhead for junior AFL in NSW. It’s going to take years for the rest of the structure to be put in place. You can’t imagine that the experience of a 12 year old in NSW would be anything like that in VIC

[Mel_C]

I remember during one of Eddie's Academy rants he said the swans would unfairly have access to 200 players. ????

[dejavoodoo44]

I remember during one of Eddie's Academy rants he said the swans would unfairly have access to 200 players. ????

Yes, one of his more idiotic statements. He seemed to forget how the draft actually works.