Swans chat Finals 22 - with a twist

[i'm-uninformed2]

So, for the sake of the argument (isn’t that what we are here for – beyond cheering on our mighty side), let’s revisit best 22 as we come into finals and touch wood, knowing we’re close to a fit list (bar Naismith).

But, I’m going to do it based on what I think Horse’s preferred structure is. I’ll use last week’s side as the start point.

KPF Buddy
Second Ruck Reid
2 x small/mid goal kickers Papley / Hayward
2 x pressure forwards Wicks / Bell
7th forward Ronke
Ruck Hickey
Contested ball mids Parker / Kennedy / Hewett / Rowbottom
Running/ball use mids Heeney / Florent / Dawson / Gulden (with Florent or Dawson rotating more behind the ball and acting as extra outlet from defence)
Tall defenders Rampe / McCartin / Fox (allowing for Rampe and Fox not being, but that’s their role)
Outlet defenders Lloyd / Blakey
Lockdown small defender McInerney

Now, we know there is one position up forward negotiable – the 7th forward. It won’t be Ronke. Does Horse go with a third tall, or use a mix of Heeney or Gulden to the role? Those two are more likely dependent on match ups.

We also know Harry comes straight back in, which probably pushes McInerney up into the spot Gulden or Heeney had among the running/ball use mids and that person back to the seventh forward role. I'll go with Gulden for now.

We know Mills comes back in, which for me means Rowbottom is the one to fall out at the moment.

Which gives us:

KPF Buddy
Second Ruck Reid
2 x small/mid goal kickers Papley / Hayward
2 x pressure forwards Wicks / Bell
7th forward Gulden
Ruck Hickey
Contested ball mids Parker / Kennedy / Hewett / Mills
Running/ball use mids Heeney / Florent / Dawson / McInerney (with Dawson or McInerney rotating more behind the ball and acting as extra outlet from defence)
Tall defenders Rampe / McCartin / Fox
Outlet defenders Lloyd / Blakey
Small defender Cunningham

Now, if that’s the structure – and I think it is – and you want another player in, who goes out? I get people will argue for Warner or wanting to see Campbell back in, for example, but for whom in the confines of that structure. For example, Warner is a better player than Bell – but that’s not the point. Horse wants at least two pressure forwards. So if Warner comes back in, is it for Florent? You choose! If you want Melican in, is it for Fox, or does someone else get squeezed out?

Part of the beauty of this is it shows depth. Amarty, Melican, Warner, Campbell, Rowbottom - just to name a few - aren't in that side.

If you think we should have a different structure, go for it – but your argument isn’t with me. It’s with Horse. If you think we have a radically different structure, argue for it.

Anyway, go for it . . .

[TheBloods]

Chad in for Bell , rest of the team as you've put it

[Maltopia]

Chad in for Bell , rest of the team as you've put it

Sorry, can’t set that. I watched the game three times. Bell applied a lot of pressure and created scoring opportunities with tackles etc which resulted in goals shortly afterwards.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Chad in for Bell , rest of the team as you've put it

Is Chad playing pressure forward role? Or you saying Horse's structure should be changed?

[TheBloods]

Is Chad playing pressure forward role? Or you saying Horse's structure should be changed?

Chad can play both fwd and mid , when hes not in mids can play fwd and push up , Bell has been doing similar but Chad is obviously better

We have a number who can play fwd or push up around stoppages , Heeney Gulden Papley Hayward Florent are others

Chad can just be another one

[i'm-uninformed2]

Chad can play both fwd and mid , when hes not in mids can play fwd and push up , Bell has been doing similar but Chad is obviously better

We have a number who can play fwd or push up around stoppages , Heeney Gulden Papley Hayward Florent are others

Chad can just be another one

He can. But that's not the primary role. Horse clearly likes two defensive pressure forwards and at the moment, it's Bell and Wicks.

I'm not saying Chad shouldn't necessarily be in the best 22, and I said earlier Warner is a better player than Bell, but that ain't the role, and it'd involve tipping someone else out.

FWIW: if Chad is to come in, my personal view is he's in competition with Florent for a spot. Florent has him covered around the ground and foot skills, but Chad is more explosive from around the stoppages and the contest. Ollie's more consistent at this point given his maturity, but he hasn't nailed absolute week-to-week consistency. Nor has Chad mind you, but if you ask me to nominate an equivalent-y player, there you go. At this stage, I'd go with Florent, but I also want him to do more, and more regularly. And it's a good thing for how we are building when someone like Ollie has players chasing him for a spot.

[TheBloods]

He can. But that's not the primary role. Horse clearly likes two defensive pressure forwards and at the moment, it's Bell and Wicks.

I'm not saying Chad shouldn't necessarily be in the best 22, and I said earlier Warner is a better player than Bell, but that ain't the role, and it'd involve tipping someone else out.

FWIW: if Chad is to come in, my personal view is he's in competition with Florent for a spot. Florent has him covered around the ground and foot skills, but Chad is more explosive from around the stoppages and the contest. Ollie's more consistent at this point given his maturity, but he hasn't nailed absolute week-to-week consistency. Nor has Chad mind you, but if you ask me to nominate an equivalent-y player, there you go. At this stage, I'd go with Florent, but I also want him to do more, and more regularly. And it's a good thing for how we are building when someone like Ollie has players chasing him for a spot.

If it is between Chad and Florent then Im going with Chad sorry but i dont think it is between them as both can do what Bell is doing . I am a Bell fan have been all along and has done his role well but its a role that both Chad or Florent could do , turn pressure into attack thats it they can both do it

[Bangalore Swans]

Here is my finals team:

B - Cunningham Melican Rampe
HB - J-Mac McCartin Blakey
C - Florent Mills Dawson
HF - Heeney Reid Hayward
F - Papley Franklin Wicks
Foll - Hickey Parker Kennedy

Inter

Lloyd
Hewitt
Chad
Gulden

Medical Sub - Rowbottom

[Ludwig]

It's absurd to think that Florent would be dropped. He's been in our bests on more than a few occasions this year.

Perhaps having Bell in the side works better from a team structure perspective, putting more emphasis on pressure, which has been the reason for our success this year.

But if I had to rank 4 players for the last spot in the side, it would be

Campbell
Warner
Rowbottom
Bell

but I'm okay with selecting any of these 4. They each have something to bring to the table. My rankings favour glitz over pressure.

[i'm-uninformed2]

It's absurd to think that Florent would be dropped. He's been in our bests on more than a few occasions this year.

Perhaps having Bell in the side works better from a team structure perspective, putting more emphasis on pressure, which has been the reason for our success this year.

But if I had to rank 4 players for the last spot in the side, it would be

Campbell
Warner
Rowbottom
Bell

but I'm okay with selecting any of these 4. They each have something to bring to the table. My rankings favour glitz over pressure.

This is a fair theory. My point was to think about it from a structural perspective. I said in my original post I think Chad is a better player than Bell. I also think he’s a better player than Wicks - right now, just; long term, by a good bit. And I like Wicks.

But they’re different roles from the perspective of the coaches. I also said if you think Horse has his structure wrong, argue that.

[wolftone57]

So, for the sake of the argument (isn’t that what we are here for – beyond cheering on our mighty side), let’s revisit best 22 as we come into finals and touch wood, knowing we’re close to a fit list (bar Naismith).

But, I’m going to do it based on what I think Horse’s preferred structure is. I’ll use last week’s side as the start point.

KPF Buddy
Second RuckReid
2 x small/mid goal kickersPapley / Hayward
2 x pressure forwardsWicks / Bell
7th forwardRonke
Ruck Hickey
Contested ball midsParker / Kennedy / Hewett / Rowbottom
Running/ball use midsHeeney / Florent / Dawson / Gulden (with Florent or Dawson rotating more behind the ball and acting as extra outlet from defence)
Tall defendersRampe / McCartin / Fox (allowing for Rampe and Fox not being, but that’s their role)
Outlet defendersLloyd / Blakey
Lockdown small defenderMcInerney

Now, we know there is one position up forward negotiable – the 7th forward. It won’t be Ronke. Does Horse go with a third tall, or use a mix of Heeney or Gulden to the role? Those two are more likely dependent on match ups.

We also know Harry comes straight back in, which probably pushes McInerney up into the spot Gulden or Heeney had among the running/ball use mids and that person back to the seventh forward role. I'll go with Gulden for now.

We know Mills comes back in, which for me means Rowbottom is the one to fall out at the moment.

Which gives us:

KPF Buddy
Second RuckReid
2 x small/mid goal kickersPapley / Hayward
2 x pressure forwardsWicks / Bell
7th forwardGulden
Ruck Hickey
Contested ball midsParker / Kennedy / Hewett / Mills
Running/ball use midsHeeney / Florent / Dawson / McInerney (with Dawson or McInerney rotating more behind the ball and acting as extra outlet from defence)
Tall defendersRampe / McCartin / Fox
Outlet defendersLloyd / Blakey
Small defenderCunningham

Now, if that’s the structure – and I think it is – and you want another player in, who goes out? I get people will argue for Warner or wanting to see Campbell back in, for example, but for whom in the confines of that structure. For example, Warner is a better player than Bell – but that’s not the point. Horse wants at least two pressure forwards. So if Warner comes back in, is it for Florent? You choose! If you want Melican in, is it for Fox, or does someone else get squeezed out?

Part of the beauty of this is it shows depth. Amarty, Melican, Warner, Campbell, Rowbottom - just to name a few - aren't in that side.

If you think we should have a different structure, go for it – but your argument isn’t with me. It’s with Horse. If you think we have a radically different structure, argue for it.

Anyway, go for it . . .

Pity McInerney is not a lockdown defender but a winger or running half back. He would be wasted as a lockdown defender with his pace.

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[i'm-uninformed2]

Pity McInerney is not a lockdown defender but a winger or running half back. He would be wasted as a lockdown defender with his pace.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

Agreed. He got the task with Harry out and with Harry coming back, I moved him back to his rightful place.

[Markwebbos]

Sorry, can’t set that. I watched the game three times. Bell applied a lot of pressure and created scoring opportunities with tackles etc which resulted in goals shortly afterwards.

Bell applied less pressure and had less tackles and less tackles inside 50 than RB. So using the IU2 structure I’d be giving Bell’s spot to Sir James.

The other question for me is whether you bring in the Pelican for Fox, who has played really well recently, or whether you back our undersized “KPD Division” to stand up for the rest of the season.

Apart from Ronke and to a lesser extent Bell, no one deserves to be dropped.

[MattW]

I can't believe we're having a discussion which countenances the possibility of Bell playing over Warner when everyone is fit.

They'd make it work somehow.

[Goal Sneak]

I believe you're right regarding the structure that Horse has settled on and that doesn't necessarily equate to the most talented players getting a run together.

FWIW, I think John Longmire and the staff should just continue whatever they've been doing, the Swans are well and truly on the right path. If that means the likes of Campbell, Warner and Rowbottom can't get into the 22 then that's ok. These guys are all still so young, I have no doubt they have long careers ahead of them in the red and white.

I'm going to happily sit back and watch this team evolve, confident in the clubs direction and decision making ability.