Finals 22 - with a twist

[i'm-uninformed2]

The last two posts are probably the debate that goes on in match committee regularly. Right now, we have a reasonably settled structure. We still play with offensive intent, but … that’s what makes it a challenge for some blokes to get back into the side.

[bennyfabulous]

I really like the way you have broken it down I’m Uninformed2, and i wonder if the MC look at it like you have as well and then just fit guys into the traditional playing position names. It would make a lot of sense.

I’d probably look at our current structure like

2 KPF (1 with ruck abilities)
2 Goal kicking smalls
1 Negating small
2 Pressure smalls (1 on bench)

1 Ruck

3 Midfield bulls (1 on bench)
1 Negating Mid
4 Speedy ball use mids (1 on bench)

2 KP Defenders
3 Defensive half ball users (1 on bench)
1 Lockdown Defender

But of course there are many other ways you could group them or look at it. I have often wondered before if our game would ever get to a more Ice-Hockey style setup, where you play your “Power team”, “Speed Team” “Pressure Team” or “Defensive team”.

Now im really interested to know what MC actually do in this regard!

[stevoswan]

Here is my finals team:

B - Cunningham Melican Rampe
HB - J-Mac McCartin Blakey
C - Florent Mills Dawson
HF - Heeney Reid Hayward
F - Papley Franklin Wicks
Foll - Hickey Parker Kennedy

Inter

Lloyd
Hewitt
Chad
Gulden

Medical Sub - Rowbottom

Good team but Fox would be unlucky. He's getting better as the season goes on. Pity he's not taller....

[Bangalore Swans]

Good team but Fox would be unlucky. He's getting better as the season goes on. Pity he's not taller....

I think Fox is playing really good football. It’s the teams with the three big forwards that worry me. Finals bound teams like Geelong, Melbourne, and the West Coast Eagles can unleash three big forwards against us. Against those teams Fox would be relying on assistance from pressure up the field and from aerial support from Rampe and Blakey. Melican would be valuable against those teams. Against the Western Bulldogs, Brisbane, GWS and Port, whom don’t play very tall up forward, Fox will be fine.

I think Blakey will be so important to this backline. Rampe, McCartin and Fox will be relying on Blakey’s elite speed and high leap to be able to jump in from the side and kill a lot of high balls. He’s been in All Australian form the last 4 weeks. If he mantains this form you suspect that the defence will be very effective over the potential next 7-8 games.

[wolftone57]

Bell applied less pressure and had less tackles and less tackles inside 50 than RB. So using the IU2 structure I’d be giving Bell’s spot to Sir James.

The other question for me is whether you bring in the Pelican for Fox, who has played really well recently, or whether you back our undersized “KPD Division” to stand up for the rest of the season.

Apart from Ronke and to a lesser extent Bell, no one deserves to be dropped.

You are happy with Reid first up? I think Sammy always takes about 3 matches to hit top form. I just wish those matches were in the reserves.

Ronke will go. So will Rowie I think.

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[bloodspirit]

I really like the way you have broken it down I’m Uninformed2, and i wonder if the MC look at it like you have as well and then just fit guys into the traditional playing position names. It would make a lot of sense.

I’d probably look at our current structure like

2 KPF (1 with ruck abilities)
2 Goal kicking smalls
1 Negating small
2 Pressure smalls (1 on bench)

1 Ruck

3 Midfield bulls (1 on bench)
1 Negating Mid
4 Speedy ball use mids (1 on bench)

2 KP Defenders
3 Defensive half ball users (1 on bench)
1 Lockdown Defender

But of course there are many other ways you could group them or look at it. I have often wondered before if our game would ever get to a more Ice-Hockey style setup, where you play your “Power team”, “Speed Team” “Pressure Team” or “Defensive team”.

Now im really interested to know what MC actually do in this regard!

Great post.

I also like the interesting discussion you have started with this thread, I'mUninformed. I think you're absolutely right that they pick a team using a breakdown of these kinds of roles, not the traditional positions.

I, like bennyfabulius, am not convinced the breakdown is necessarily as you have suggested IU2 (not suggesting it's wrong either). More particularly, I'm not convinced the set up always stays the same from match to match i.e. not just the players named change, I think the roles played gets tweaked a bit too. This is particularly true when we are hit by injuries and have to adapt.

I would love it if the coaches were more transparent about this. But it's not that easy to figure out and I guess that's why clubs employ opposition analysts, and why coaches don't give too much away.

Anyway, to answer your question, IU2, you could get Warner in for Bell by switching Heeney into the F50 "pressure" role. However, while I agree some roles are more defensive than others, I think a huge part of our team ethos is that every player has to apply a lot of pressure. We don't have any Dustin Martins. Not even the Lizard or the Nut (J-Mc).

Pressure is Horse's mantra. I remember him being interviewed a while back and being asked about 'the state of the game' and its aesthetic and how we could get more goals. He said that personally he finds 'pressure footy' really satisfying (to watch) and doesn't crave goals so much.

[Ralph Dawg]

The main way to counter attacking raids is to work as a cohesive unit. Our defensive end has looked great of late and until it looks fragile, I would be loathe to change it just on the basis that Melican makes it look stronger on paper due to his size. Fox is playing in career best form.

[Roadrunner]

The main way to counter attacking raids is to work as a cohesive unit. Our defensive end has looked great of late and until it looks fragile, I would be loathe to change it just on the basis that Melican makes it look stronger on paper due to his size. Fox is playing in career best form.

Agreed about Fox- started very hesitantly against the Weagles but has really picked up form and played very well last week: I was pleasantly surprised! Still think we need to have Melican available against teams playing 3 monster forwards.

Regarding positional player selections: I also follow soccer in the EPL, Liverpool ( of course!) and the manager (Juergen Klopp) favours players who are versatile and can play in several positions if needed. Hence I have RB and the Chad ahead of both Bell and Wicks, though both these guys have played well recently. RB can play midfield, forward and a tagging role if needed whereas Bell and Wicks have only played up front. The Chad is not only versatile, like J Mac, but has heaps of ability to win the ball etc as we all know. Therefore he must be in our best 22.

[i'm-uninformed2]

The main way to counter attacking raids is to work as a cohesive unit. Our defensive end has looked great of late and until it looks fragile, I would be loathe to change it just on the basis that Melican makes it look stronger on paper due to his size. Fox is playing in career best form.

This is a good point. When you watched the Hawks game, their strategy to proactively target McCartin with little blocks and shepherds to stop him using his height and marking ability was ruthless and brilliant. But it was also clearly our deficiencies up the ground that made it easier for them to execute.

That element was made more obvious in the match against WCE, who arguably have one of the best three-headed monsters in the comp. But it didn't matter because of what happened up the ground.

The only two forward lines that worry me are Geelong, given its depth, quality and variety - and Port at their best.

But right now it's a moot debate. Fox is playing superbly, we've gone four from four and he's done well over that stretch, and I like Melican more than most on here, but he always seems to take a while to get back to his best form, and time is running out.

[The Runner]

I think Fox or Melican will need be the medical sub when we get to finals. Or maybe even McLean/Amartey.
If we were to lose McCartin, Buddy or Hickey, we have no coverage in the other 21 players to appropriately cover.
Whereas, almost any other player can be covered to a degree by shifting players around.

[TheBloods]

Fox gives his all and had his best game on the weekend ! Does not deserve to be dropped

[The Runner]

Fox gives his all and had his best game on the weekend ! Does not deserve to be dropped

Not all players who miss a finals 22 deserve it. But if we play Geelong in week 2, we can't be playing Fox on one of Hawkins, Cameron or Esava. We need a stronger option, and that's Melican. But then whoever misses should be the sub as coverage.

[Goal Sneak]

I tend to agree that while the team is playing so well we should keep changes to a minimum. The main differences between the two are height and speed. Melican has the height but Fox has the speed. It would be ideal if we could chop and change these two depending on the opposition, without losing any cohesion

[TheBloods]

Not all players who miss a finals 22 deserve it. But if we play Geelong in week 2, we can't be playing Fox on one of Hawkins, Cameron or Esava. We need a stronger option, and that's Melican. But then whoever misses should be the sub as coverage.

Rubbish , you win a game by playing 22 players who are in form , know their role and can be relied on to perform it . Midfield is firing atm , they will put pressure on Geelong's entries and their talls wont even see it . While Fox and Jmac are running it out at will JB and Darce will be sooking about how Geelong went too tall !

[The Runner]

Rubbish , you win a game by playing 22 players who are in form , know their role and can be relied on to perform it . Midfield is firing atm , they will put pressure on Geelong's entries and their talls wont even see it . While Fox and Jmac are running it out at will JB and Darce will be sooking about how Geelong went too tall !

Good point. We'll have to leave Mills, Chad and Harry out too.