Why Cyril Rioli left Hawthorn

[Bangalore Swans]

What an utterly ridiculous comment.

Few, if any, students at “high fee private school(s)” choose to attend there. It’s the parent’s decision. And the parents choose it to give the children the best opportunities in life. Whether the decision is a correct one or achieves the intended goal is a different matter. And as for cadets, extra curricular activities are mandatory. The student (or parent) have no option but participate. And the options in year 9, during Kennett’s time, would likely have been sea scouts, cadets or St Johns (the latter being met with derision by peers). A cadet leader is and appointment recognising leadership qualities by peers and staff. To ridicule a student for this is akin to mocking them for being elected to captain of football, a prefect or captain of the school.

So yes, TBC, you need to know more. Like Kennett or not, to tar every student who has attended a attended a private school and hold a position of responsibility is a somewhat pathetic stereotype from a grown adult. Josh Kennedy was a private school attendee. Nick Smith was a captain of football at the same private school as Kennett, and,
I believe, a cadet. The fact that Kennett was a cadet leader only demonstrated he was perhaps destined for a leadership position. But, as we see littered throughout history up until this very day, not all capable leaders are “good” leaders.

What a brilliant post. Should be the counter punch to all independent school bashing.

Independent school bashing is littered with envy and jealousy.

Lance Franklin and Dan Hannas also attended independent schools. I think Callam Mills did LRT did. Issac Heeney, Shannon Grant and Blakey were fine Waverley College students.

Want to trash independent schools you might as well trash half the Swans team.

[Bloods05]

What a brilliant post. Should be the counter punch to all independent school bashing.

Independent school bashing is littered with envy and jealousy.

Lance Franklin and Dan Hannas also attended independent schools. I think Callam Mills did LRT did. Issac Heeney, Shannon Grant and Blakey were fine Waverley College students.

Want to trash independent schools you might as well trash half the Swans team.

????????????

[cherub]

Shannon Grant??? Fine Waverley College student??? Went to gaol for bashing a woman. Isaac moved to Waverley for the last year or two so he could participate more easily in the Academy. The private schools in Victoria have such a stranglehold on AFL development it's impossible to avoid. They give scholarships to promising footballers, removing them from other systems. Cyril came down from the NT to board at Scotch because of football..

[The Big Cat]

What an utterly ridiculous comment.

Few, if any, students at “high fee private school(s)” choose to attend there. It’s the parent’s decision. And the parents choose it to give the children the best opportunities in life. Whether the decision is a correct one or achieves the intended goal is a different matter. And as for cadets, extra curricular activities are mandatory. The student (or parent) have no option but participate. And the options in year 9, during Kennett’s time, would likely have been sea scouts, cadets or St Johns (the latter being met with derision by peers). A cadet leader is and appointment recognising leadership qualities by peers and staff. To ridicule a student for this is akin to mocking them for being elected to captain of football, a prefect or captain of the school.

So yes, TBC, you need to know more. Like Kennett or not, to tar every student who has attended a attended a private school and hold a position of responsibility is a somewhat pathetic stereotype from a grown adult. Josh Kennedy was a private school attendee. Nick Smith was a captain of football at the same private school as Kennett, and,
I believe, a cadet. The fact that Kennett was a cadet leader only demonstrated he was perhaps destined for a leadership position. But, as we see littered throughout history up until this very day, not all capable leaders are “good” leaders.

I was not having a go at private schools. I was having a go at the idea of cadets in general. Teenage boys playing tin soldiers is hardly community service or a worthwhile extra curricular experience. (And if joining St Johns Ambos is looked at with derision by peers as you say, then there is a fair bit of work to do in informing these young men about what constitutes a valuable use of their time.)

[The Big Cat]

The private schools in Victoria have such a stranglehold on AFL development it's impossible to avoid. They give scholarships to promising footballers, removing them from other systems. Cyril came down from the NT to board at Scotch because of football..

Agree entirely. State schools are gutted of their sporting talent by private schools offering “general excellence” scholarships. Later you hear commentators referring to the star recruit from xxxx grammar school when the kid learnt all their footy at xxx tech in the western suburbs. And so the myth is perpetuated.

[KTigers]

Agree entirely. State schools are gutted of their sporting talent by private schools offering “general excellence” scholarships. Later you hear commentators referring to the star recruit from xxxx grammar school when the kid learnt all their footy at xxx tech in the western suburbs. And so the myth is perpetuated.

I've always thought getting AFL into GPS schools in Sydney properly will be a way to produce more draftees here. There was a lot of resistance
from the rugby crowd ten years ago. That may have lessened a bit now as they bow to reality.

[Mr Magoo]

I've always thought getting AFL into GPS schools in Sydney properly will be a way to produce more draftees here. There was a lot of resistance
from the rugby crowd ten years ago. That may have lessened a bit now as they bow to reality.

Rugby still very much the dominant sport and while its getting stronger the school comp as I understand it is nowhere near as strong as the general sydney league. To be honest it does get quite ridiculous when talented boys are forced to play for their GPS team rather than their far better quality Sydney AFL team.

At my sons school they point blank refused to put an AFL team in place as they didnt want to diminish the rugby program.

[KTigers]

Rugby still very much the dominant sport and while its getting stronger the school comp as I understand it is nowhere near as strong as the general sydney league. To be honest it does get quite ridiculous when talented boys are forced to play for their GPS team rather than their far better quality Sydney AFL team.

At my sons school they point blank refused to put an AFL team in place as they didnt want to diminish the rugby program.

Same at my sons school. They pretended they didn't know what AFL was almost, even though there were a number of boys there that were
very good junior AFL players including one that was on the Swans list for a couple years. Though it was a great school in many other respects.
Just not their preciousness and defensiveness about rugby.

[Maltopia]

Re the joke itself that was considered racist.

I was born in Hong Kong so am from a minority group in Australia and I have experienced racism a few times.

Obviously Kennett didn’t think the Riolis were poor, has Cyril would have been on good coin.

If he had made the same joke (lend you some coins to fix your ripped jeans) to a white partner of another player, it would not be considered racist.

It is because First Nations people are over-represented in lower socio-economic circles of our society, and often looked down upon as poor and maligned as dole bludgers etc.

So the same seemingly harmless joke said to an Aboriginal person is a land mine as there is increased sensitivity due to different life experiences.

Joke and off the cuff comments are very tricky these days, whether or not they are racist, misogynistic, homophobic, ableist, xxx-shaming, etc is entirely from the perspective of the person being comment on/joked about, not the intent of the speaker.

I am not defending Kennett, just observing that societal expectations have changed significantly in the last couple of decades.

My 15 year old daughter accused me of being transphobic because I felt more secure that another kid who was coming over to sleepover, identified as male after being born female but hasn’t had any surgery done yet, instead of being born and identifying as male.

My rationale was that he did not have the same hormones, physiology and lads experiences that treat women poorly, and so I felt less worried about a sexual assault happening. The sad reality is male on female sexual violence happens way too often.

But…. my 15 year old and 17 year old viewed this as mistreating the kid (who wasn’t even present for the discussion) and being transphobic, as I was viewing them as “less male” because I felt there was a lesser likelihood of a sexual assault!

Every conversation can be a potential landmine these days!

[stevoswan]

What a brilliant post. Should be the counter punch to all independent school bashing.

Independent school bashing is littered with envy and jealousy.

Lance Franklin and Dan Hannas also attended independent schools. I think Callam Mills did LRT did. Issac Heeney, Shannon Grant and Blakey were fine Waverley College students.

Want to trash independent schools you might as well trash half the Swans team.

Look, they certainly can be great schools of learning..... but I believe the worry is what sort of people are these schools churning out? Sure you get a good education but do you necessarily end up a nice person?

I attended an independent 'high fee' school for a few years before we moved to the country. I was witness to a lot of talk about the 'poor' and it wasn't nice at all. I started to buy in to this class talk and looking back, I was glad to attend a normal high school after this and learn to appreciate everybody, no matter where they sat in society. Don't worry, I loved my time at the rich school but fear I would have ended up a right prat. I like who I am now.

I'm not saying that every student who attends these schools turns out to be a tosser but some leave these schools hating anyone who is poor and ready to step on anyone to get to the top. Basically stuck up sociopaths.....and a lot of that can be traced back to the parents that chose the school for them. If the parents are holistic citizens, their kids will usually turn out ok.

There is nothing wrong with attending a high fee independent school...as long as you're actually going there to learn about life etc and not just attending for the purposes of future wealth networking, rich ego massaging and solidifying your opposition to those who are not as privileged as one's self. Some arsehole's revel in that crap.

Oh and what's wrong with some jealousy? There is plenty of reason for some people to be very pissed off with their lot in this free and 'rich' society. It's not always fair on the downtrodden.....and then they see private schools getting massive funding. Disgraceful.

[KSAS]

On Footy Classified late last night, Caro mentioned in that 2015 game at the MCG against Hawthorn where Goodes was unmercifully boo'd by their supporters, that during the 1/2 time break Cyril & Burgone mentioned to the club it was deeply affecting them. After the game they sought the club to make a statements against racial booing but instead got Andrew Newbould coming out saying the booing wasn't racially motivated!

[KTigers]

On Footy Classified late last night, Caro mentioned in that 2015 game at the MCG against Hawthorn where Goodes was unmercifully boo'd by their supporters, that during the 1/2 time break Cyril & Burgone mentioned to the club it was deeply affecting them. After the game they sought the club to make a statements against racial booing but instead got Andrew Newbould coming out saying the booing wasn't racially motivated!

It's great isn't it? The president of the club won't even support his own players.

[i'm-uninformed2]

On Footy Classified late last night, Caro mentioned in that 2015 game at the MCG against Hawthorn where Goodes was unmercifully boo'd by their supporters, that during the 1/2 time break Cyril & Burgone mentioned to the club it was deeply affecting them. After the game they sought the club to make a statements against racial booing but instead got Andrew Newbould coming out saying the booing wasn't racially motivated!

This is broadly correct.

My knowledge of it comes from the Swans side of things, so I can’t be certain whether it was at half time or after the game that Cyril and Burgoyne raised it, but they did and were told to drop it. I also have a strong memory that week of Jordan Lewis, who was always very good on the issue, saying any message to the fans was best done by players, which let the cat out of the bag a bit.

What I do know is that:

* the Swans felt this was the game where the booing went to another level
* at half time, Andrew Pridham complained loudly to some AFL executives about it
* both during and after the game, he raised it with Newbold, saying at one point: “Your fans started this, you fix it.”
* it was then after the game that Newbold famously said, in effect “they’re not booing our Indigenous players so nothing racist here”.

What I also understand is even after the West Coast game, the Hawks were one of the last clubs to sign up to the competition wide effort to deal with it, and it was only the insistence of their players that forced them to.

As I said earlier, one of the most galling elements of all of this is the next year, that clown got appointed to the AFL Commission. A disgrace from start to finish.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

There is always a lot of talk about "culture" at footy clubs. But a lot of it is just a virtue signaling exercise.

The only positive I can think of for "virtue signalling" is that it's preferable to "vice displaying"

[Nico]

This is broadly correct.

My knowledge of it comes from the Swans side of things, so I can’t be certain whether it was at half time or after the game that Cyril and Burgoyne raised it, but they did and were told to drop it. I also have a strong memory that week of Jordan Lewis, who was always very good on the issue, saying any message to the fans was best done by players, which let the cat out of the bag a bit.

What I do know is that:

* the Swans felt this was the game where the booing went to another level
* at half time, Andrew Pridham complained loudly to some AFL executives about it
* both during and after the game, he raised it with Newbold, saying at one point: “Your fans started this, you fix it.”
* it was then after the game that Newbold famously said, in effect “they’re not booing our Indigenous players so nothing racist here”.

What I also understand is even after the West Coast game, the Hawks were one of the last clubs to sign up to the competition wide effort to deal with it, and it was only the insistence of their players that forced them to.

As I said earlier, one of the most galling elements of all of this is the next year, that clown got appointed to the AFL Commission. A disgrace from start to finish.

No wonder Adam hasn't come back to the game. I expect that he was aware of all these goings on.