Round 10 v Carlton @ Marvel Stadium

[mcs]

We didn't let George go to keep Kennedy though. Even if Kennedy retired we would of made the same call.

We did it to better position ourselves for the years ahead in terms of salary cap, not season 2022.

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[waswan]

Negating coaching is an issue.

Back our midfield in to get their own ball.

We have a team full of ball winners playing half pregnant not knowing when to go and not to go.

Why tag Cripps, Walsh, Hewitt or Kennedy they are all inside bulls.

Id only get Will to run with a Half Back Flanker like Saad or Docherty

Let the mids go head to head, 2nd half proved they are capable

[Ludwig]

Dont know why anyone is shocked , you go into a game carrying too many dud names how do you expect to beat a top 4 side ?

Do you think we would do better if some of our players changed their names?

[bandwagon]

Do you think we would do better if some of our players changed their names?

Today Coburg had a Baddeley-Kelly, a D'Intinosante and a Swierzbiolek running around. Fox, Reid and Clarke simply don't measure up!

[stevoswan]

I rewatched footage of the Warner one too which didn’t look too far at the ground. The ump missed his bounce, paid the free then the 50 for saying he had a bounce, then a tetchy free against Mccartin.

I know they out played us that qtr but that passage of play killed us.

Yes, we were on a definite roll there, the umpires could sense it and stopping Warner in his tracks, followed by a pathetic 50m penalty and then paying the free against McCartin was the perfect momentum killer. It totally sucked.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually no I would have kept Hewitt rather than giving Josh another year, the game had already gone passed him last year. I understand the romance of getting him to 300 games but for a player that was never quick time comes even faster.

In HINDSIGHT, this is correct.

[stevoswan]

Dont know why anyone is shocked , you go into a game carrying too many dud names how do you expect to beat a top 4 side ?

I agree with the crux of your post TB but is anyone here really acting shocked? I've read plenty of disappointment at the loss, some shock at the umpiring standard (though we shouldn't shocked be by now) and some rightful criticisms of some players for being duds but are you really witnessing 'shock'?

I think most Swans fans knew this game was going to be a real test and I doubt anyone thought it was a sure fire win....so I think your use of the word shock is just a pathway for you to impart your 'wisdom' in the second part of your sentence.

BTW, do you include Bell as one of last nights 'duds'?

[TheBloods]

I agree with the crux of your post TB but is anyone here really acting shocked? I've read plenty of disappointment at the loss, some shock at the umpiring standard (though we shouldn't shocked be by now) and some rightful criticisms of some players for being duds but are you really witnessing 'shock'?

I think most Swans fans knew this game was going to be a real test and I doubt anyone thought it was a sure fire win....so I think your use of the word shock is just a pathway for you to impart your 'wisdom' in the second part of your sentence.

BTW, do you include Bell as one of last nights 'duds'?

Yes Bell is a dud . in THAT role . We already knew that ,not sure why we expected any different selecting him . Him, Wicks , O' riordan , Hayward, Ladhams , these blokes arent taking us to a flag or anywhere near it .

[stevoswan]

Yes Bell is a dud . in THAT role . We already knew that ,not sure why we expected any different selecting him . Him, Wicks , O' riordan , Hayward, Ladhams , these blokes arent taking us to a flag or anywhere near it .

Yep, we certainly have some holes that need to be filled with higher end talent.

[bloodspirit]

I didn't get to watch the game last night because our connection between the tv and the antenna isn't working and I've got Covid and can't leave the house. So I had to wait for the match replay to become available online. When I found it online a few hours ago and I succeeded in avoiding all news of the result and getting the match cued on screen ready to watch, I was very pleased with myself. I felt excited but pretty nervous about the match. It didn't help my nerves to remember a snippet of dream from overnight that we had been absolutely spanked like 85-23 or something like that.

Overall I thought it was a good game and a fitting result, which is disappointing. I had hoped that this year we had become a top 4 team but, so at this stage, that is clearly not the case. We deserve our spot in the lower half of the 8 but not more.

I guess I had hoped that since we felt like a worthy top 6 team last season we would progress and move up given the youth of our team. But that overlooks a few things:

* we did have a better than expected season last year
* we lost two of our better and more experienced players. We did replace them with Ladhams and Paddy Mc but Hewett and Dawson were just at that sweetspot of age and experience and we haven't been able to instantly fill the hole their departure left us with;
* while there has been improvement from some of our youth (especially Warner, who is really building on his good form last year and taking it further; Campbell hasn't quite broken out but has done enough to he's going to succeed at AFL level too; Mills and Heeney are arguably having career best years) this has to some degree been offset by a decline in form by some of our senior players. Parker remains one of our best players but he seems to be past his peak - I can't see him being selected AA again. Ditto Buddy. But it's even clearer with players like JPK, Rampe (although Rampe's last couple of games have been quite good in my opinion) and even Lloyd who isn't looking like he'll win and more Bobby Skilton medals.
* we seem to be short one quality midfielder - i.e. JPK's replacement. That's why it hurts to have lost Hewett who is no peak-JPK but would have been our 3rd best midfielder. We have drafted to address this gap and both Sheldrick and Roberts look really promising (Sheather too) but it's going to take them a little bit of time to hit their peaks, plus neither of them is a massive bull and it feels like we could profit from having one beast-type mifielder.

So perhaps we'll have to bide our time for our real flag tilt another season or two. However, I'm not giving up on finishing top 4 by season's end - we will have to improve a fair bit more during the season but that is possible.

Turning to focus a bit more on this game rather than our season overall, my thoughts were:

* one of Logan's best games - could have had a proper bag if he had kicked straighter
* I agree with others who feel like we missed Rowbottom.
* McInerney had a better game than last week, but Chad went missing compared to last week. I guess that lack of consistency goes with their youth.
* we didn't get enough from our rucks. Hickey might have been a little rusty? Anyway, we can't continue to play them both if that's how it's going to go. We'll have to bring back McLean or Amartey if Ladhams can't cut it as a forward. That said, it's the first time Hickey and Ladhams have played together and maybe we need to give them a bit of a chance to jell before making the decision.
* Paddy McCartin is growing into a valuable KPD for us - just what we dreamed of!
* as already mentioned, I think Rampe's form has been a bit better the past couple of weeks. Not quite his glory days but nice to see him show some good stuff in his 200th.

Finally, I don't think Bell and Wicks are as bad as most are saying. Clearly they are less talented than other players that are not being selected but the main issue is that it is hard for us to appreciate the role they play because it is not spectacular and doesn't get captured by stats. I have no difficulty saying that Dyl Stephens is a better footballer overall, but I don't believe he would play their role better than they do (or even as well as they do unfortunately) at this stage. In the short term I think the player who has the best chance of playing that role with a higher upside than them is Sheldrick - but he is currently injured and unavailable. Also, in the longer term, I'd rather see Sheldrick playing on the ball than as a defensive forward.

In summation, I think we overrated ourselves and/or underrated Carlton and were just honourably beaten by a better team on the night. I was encouraged that we never gave in. I'm a big believer in the talent on our list. And thus I am confident that we can still rise and contend for a flag in the near future, if not this season.

[Roadrunner]

Yes Bell is a dud . in THAT role . We already knew that ,not sure why we expected any different selecting him . Him, Wicks , O' riordan , Hayward, Ladhams , these blokes arent taking us to a flag or anywhere near it .

Bell and Wicks won’t lead us anywhere TB. The others you mention may be ok as depth, as every team needs players who can come in to cover injuries and can do a reasonable job. Furthermore, you’re a bit harsh on Ladhams, who only had a few games and has played well in a couple. As for Wilbur, though he does drift in and out, he has undoubted ability. Who do you want to replace him from our current list?

[TheBloods]

Bell and Wicks won’t lead us anywhere TB. The others you mention may be ok as depth, as every team needs players who can come in to cover injuries and can do a reasonable job. Furthermore, you’re a bit harsh on Ladhams, who only had a few games and has played well in a couple. As for Wilbur, though he does drift in and out, he has undoubted ability. Who do you want to replace him from our current list?

Im not saying they should be replaced , the list is what it is , thats half the problem . But time to give up on some of these who will never be more than inconsistent cameo players . Pop up for a good game every now and then but let us down far too often . Ladhams doesnt have an obvious replacement . stays in and hopefully pulls his finger out. Same as Hayward

Stephens replaces Bell , Sheather replaces O riordan , Roberts replaces Kennedy , Gus comes in later and replaces Wicks

Maybe they will be good , maybe they wont be, but its time we find out , instead of trying the same old same olds who get us nowhere

[Roadrunner]

Im not saying they should be replaced , the list is what it is , thats half the problem . But time to give up on some of these who will never be more than inconsistent cameo players . Pop up for a good game every now and then but let us down far too often . Ladhams doesnt have an obvious replacement . stays in and hopefully pulls his finger out. Same as Hayward

Stephens replaces Bell , Sheather replaces O riordan , Roberts replaces Kennedy , Gus comes in later and replaces Wicks

Maybe they will be good , maybe they wont be, but its time we find out , instead of trying the same old same olds who get us nowhere

Agree with all of that TB. I’m all for trying those guys by giving them a run of games, including Gould.

[Nico]

Really disappointing loss last night. Watching the game live was hard to do with the umpires really allowing the Carlton fans to help make their decisions, with the vocal Blues crowd roaring every close decision and in particular the first half, when everything went the Blues way.

Wicks and Bell have to be dropped as they did nothing - Bell in particular was running around all over the ground looking as if he did not have a clue what he was supposed to be doing. I would also not pick Ladhams, when the ball hits the ground forget it.

That 50m penalty again Chad was a joke.I watched the qtr again this morning - he bounced the ball and when the umpire gave a free kick all he said was I bounced the ball ! Crips holds his arms out wide and protests against a free kick - NO PENALTY !! Plus how many times did our forwards have their arms chopped with no free kicks. This year is the worst season for really bad umpiring - and it is right across the games. Week after week you see really bad inconsistency in decisions and 50m penalties.


I

I have watched the replay and I thought Ladhams worked really hard. He laid a couple of great tackles in the 2nd half.

In the 3rd quarter when we were having a set shot, Cripps was chatting with an umpire whinging about something. Is that not dissent. The Carlton supporter beside me said Cripps gets looked after every week. When he is tackled he just lets the ball go, throws his arms out and gets a free for holding.

[Nico]

Negating coaching is an issue.

Back our midfield in to get their own ball.

We have a team full of ball winners playing half pregnant not knowing when to go and not to go.

Why tag Cripps, Walsh, Hewitt or Kennedy they are all inside bulls.

Id only get Will to run with a Half Back Flanker like Saad or Docherty

Let the mids go head to head, 2nd half proved they are capable

Well said. We are not going to get the flare back unless we do this. So much for the new style of fast movement.

[Mel_C]

What does "outside five" mean? Standing on the mark, exactly where the mark was taken and get told "outside five" and have to move back five metres. Why?

I wanted to know as well because I kept hearing it at the ground. I asked my brother today and he said when the player on the mark stands more than 5 metres behind the mark, the umpire calls out "outside 5" instead of "stand". This means that the player "on the mark" can move around and doesn't have to stand like a statue. I wasn't aware of this until today. I saw some examples in today's Geelong game.