Rd 19 vs Fremantle @ Optus Stadium - Match Thread

[Captain]

On that performance maybe buddy should play agin next year (maybe every home game) to give him a chance to play another finals series.

No way, we need to move on. Logan is the future.

[waswan]

He is getting the line just fine and that line is this year.

He is a soft tissue injury away from retirement, could easily have a Sam Reid year if we kept him next year

Loved his game, love his drop punts for goal and loved his marking but he doesnt have another 22 in him and every other week is just silly to think about at this level

[wolftone57]

I thought Buddy was darn good tonight. He kicked straight, was constantly working hard defensively, did a lot of bullocking work, and did some terrific deft tap ons that he doesn't get a stat for. And took 6 marks.

Why was he so good, other than pure talent? Because instead of going to him 54% of the time we only targeted him when he was in a good position. We went to him less with than 20% of our entries. This allowed him to get 1 on 1 with Pearce on multiple occasions

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[Thunder Shaker]

A win against Essendon next week would be massive.

A fixture triangle: R18, we beat the Dogs by 2 points, R19, the Dogs beat Essendon, R20, we play Essendon. On form, we should win this.

Essendon have been lacklustre since their bye in round 14: losses to Fremantle, Port (but only by 4 points), Geelong and Dogs, and their only win in that time was against Adelaide who have been in slightly worse form.

[rojo]

This was a really enjoyable game to watch, even if on laptop screen. Three things stood out to me, one, the HUGE difference it makes kicking goals instead of points, especially in a first quarter. What a difference to be 5.1 instead of 1.5. A standard was set! As the quarter wore one I thought to myself, surely, at last, there has been some serious goalkicking practice this week!

Second, while a couple of players were quieter than usual and one or two others didn't get many touches everyone seemed to be switched on and overall skill levels were pretty good. Only in the 3rd quarter or so did our backline have a few moments of chaos. We missed you Melican!

Third, we had someone who stepped up and made an impact at critical stages eg Hayward in the first quarter and Bud later in the game. Inspirational efforts.

I would have to add Wolftone57's observation too, re more separation in the forward line and and targeting of the best option. It works!

[goswannies]

I expect that I will be shouted down by the majority but I have thought for a while Bud has (at least) one more year in him.

• is he among the bottom 5 players on our list? If not, there is potentially room for him at least on the list

• my concern has been that when Buddy plays, his presence can detract from the performance/development of other KPFs (Logan, Joel, Hayden etc). We can be Buddy-centric at times.

• but I have also thought that when Bud plays up the ground, he is not the focal point and it gives the others an opportunity play their natural game. Bud seems to have a natural tendency to roam up the ground when he’s not getting the ball as a forward - up to the wing or even a half back flank - to get a touch and influence the game. Maybe this is out of frustration for him?

• What if we play him as an old fashioned utility, giving him licence to do his thing further up the field? (Say, between half-forward and half back) His ball delivery by foot isn’t too bad much of the time, so delivery to the other forwards could be tantalising . If he played as a high half forward, he would be a difficult matchup for oppositions and would either be a fair deliverer of the ball or a penetrating scorer (albeit not the 60m buddy of old, but he still has a decent leg). And in recent games he seems just as happy to set up a team mate as to score himself. Anyone watch Ted Lasso season 3? “Total football” let Bud off the leash to do what Bud wants to do and let others adapt the game play around him to accommodate (trusting that Bud continues to make the right, ream first decisions) … ok, that might be taking it a bit far, but you get the concept.

• his overhead & contested marking has improved over recent years. It’s another string to his bow and bare minimum he creates a contest for small forwards (or mids if he players further afield).

• he has shown a willingness to chase and tackle (sure, not as effective as Rowie but the endeavour is there and ge is a Mummy-esque physical presence). Even at 36; his game style is evolving.

• he also potentially be used as a link man on a wing (like Richo late in his career at the Tigers)

• a riskier use might also be as the sub - less time on the ground might help his longevity but but is an impact player it doesn’t take a lot of time on the ground for him to influence a game.

• and if the other KPFs aren’t firing, he is always an option to play a role as a full forward as needed (he’s averaging 1.6 goals a game this season but 2 goals a game over the last 6 weeks. He’s still our most effective forward and having a cameo contribution might maintain his output without compromising fellow KPFs

• then there is the non-onfield tangibles. His influence on the the development of younger KPFs at training, allowing their development by training and playing with one of the all time greatest forwards. His financial impact on membership and merchandise. This influence on the playing group with his presence around the club. The Bud factor on the rest of the team. When he lifts, those around him lift, and he he doesn’t feel the pressure to be the go-to forward, his presence can be felt in Luther ways (last night he tackled and chased, contested marking contests and on the ground, a deft tap on to a player in a better position, passing to team mates, a celebration when a team mate scored - Bud contributed, even when not being our highest scorer on the night … it’s the Bud factor)

• if the reports from Horse are to be taken as gospel (ok I don’t, but if I did) and he doesn’t train full time with the group anyway - as part of a Buddy workload management strategy - is there an option for him to spend some time away from the club (ie with family in Qld) as has been proposed as a post retirement plan. Covid forced companies to re-strategise work arrangements. Mines have a fly-in/fly-out arrangement. Is this an option to prolong the career of Buddy? The expectation that he won’t play every week so that the rigours on his body are not so demanding but also his work/family life balance is more accomodating (Google does it). Heck, he Swans flew in and out for their first season in Sydney and they won a night premiership doing it.

• Bud is 36. LeBron is 38. Bradman was nearly 40 when he played his final test, as was Jordan when he finally retired for good and Tom Brady was 45 when he retired. If we manage his game time, is it unreasonable that he continue a little longer?

• again, would a 37 year old Bud in 2024 be making the least contribution of any player on our list, genuinely earning a spot in the senior side? Will there be a player on the 2024 list who will never play a senior game for us?

[Markwebbos]

Why was he so good, other than pure talent? Because instead of going to him 54% of the time we only targeted him when he was in a good position. We went to him less with than 20% of our entries. This allowed him to get 1 on 1 with Pearce on multiple occasions

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Great observation

[Blood Fever]

Reasonable food for thought. Is he definitely moving to Queensland?

[goswannies]

Reasonable food for thought. Is he definitely moving to Queensland?

That’s the expectation, I believe … when he retires. Closer to Jacinta’s family (not so closer to his own)

[Blood Fever]

I remember when we recruited him he said that if JL played him deep(which he mostly has), then he could play till he was 40!

[i'm-uninformed2]

I love the Bud. He’s the most unique player and given more pure joy to fans than anyone I’ve seen in 30 years of watching AFL. What he’s done for our club is priceless, and he’s an utterly selfless player - including what he’s done this year playing under duress when we had no one else, to what he did staying in the COVID hub when other high value players who were out for the season would have gone home to a young family.

I also think it was fair enough he played on this year after kicking 50 last year, even if it hasn’t really worked that well.

But it is time to say goodbye at the end of the year. One - he’s slowing, and that will only continue. And two - and this is my main reason - we have an amazing group of young players and with the right choices around our list to fill a few gaps, have the potential to contend for the next six or seven years.

Consider that real talents like the Chad, Gulden, Logan, Blakey, Tom McCartin, Rowie, Sheldrick, McInerney, Campbell are still a couple of years from entering their true prime, and you’ve got five good years to come from serious talent in Mills, Paps and Heeney. That’s before you get to solid players (ie Ollie, and Ladhams and Amartey if they stay fit) or potentials (like a Roberts, McAndrew).

Will they all stay healthy? Fingers crossed. Might one or two get dragged out by the lure of home or dollars? Likely.

But the bones are there with good list management to have a great run and our goal needs to be: what’s our grand final side and style of play look like in 2025, or 2027, or so on. Keeping Bud another year doesn’t aid that. We need to build the forward line that fires off a winning performance on the big stage on the big day. It takes a couple of years to build that synchronicity and precision, so let’s start doing it.

As I said, I love Bud, and I hope we find a way to keep him involved in the footy department, and I’ll be truly sad that last game we see him play, but it’s gonna be time.

[goswannies]

I remember when we recruited him he said that if JL played him deep(which he mostly has), then he could play till he was 40!

Yeah, for me it’s not not that he can’t play until he’s 40, it’s what his presence as a deep forward has on the team, our performance and it’s impact on developing team-mates. If he’s still a valuable contributor, can he and the team adapt to ensure that he has significant value if he and the club wanted Bud to extend another season (… or two)

I love the Bud. He’s the most unique player and given more pure joy to fans than anyone I’ve seen in 30 years of watching AFL. What he’s done for our club is priceless, and he’s an utterly selfless player - including what he’s done this year playing under duress when we had no one else, to what he did staying in the COVID hub when other high value players who were out for the season would have gone home to a young family.

I also think it was fair enough he played on this year after kicking 50 last year, even if it hasn’t really worked that well.

But it is time to say goodbye at the end of the year. One - he’s slowing, and that will only continue. And two - and this is my main reason - we have an amazing group of young players and with the right choices around our list to fill a few gaps, have the potential to contend for the next six or seven years.

Consider that real talents like the Chad, Gulden, Logan, Blakey, Tom McCartin, Rowie, Sheldrick, McInerney, Campbell are still a couple of years from entering their true prime, and you’ve got five good years to come from serious talent in Mills, Paps and Heeney. That’s before you get to solid players (ie Ollie, and Ladhams and Amartey if they stay fit) or potentials (like a Roberts, McAndrew).

Will they all stay healthy? Fingers crossed. Might one or two get dragged out by the lure of home or dollars? Likely.

But the bones are there with good list management to have a great run and our goal needs to be: what’s our grand final side and style of play look like in 2025, or 2027, or so on. Keeping Bud another year doesn’t aid that. We need to build the forward line that fires off a winning performance on the big stage on the big day. It takes a couple of years to build that synchronicity and precision, so let’s start doing it.

As I said, I love Bud, and I hope we find a way to keep him involved in the footy department, and I’ll be truly sad that last game we see him play, but it’s gonna be time.

Every opinion is legitimate and worthy

I still see (maybe I want to see) value in him as a Swan. Father Time catches up with us all. Run a bit faster Bud. Just for a little bit more.

[MattW]

Buddy has been influential in our last two wins. He's rediscovered his confidence and has shown desperation and will to win which only Parker and Rowbottom have matched.

This small piece on the afl site is on the mark:

'4) Buddy remains the key to a late Swans charge
At 36 years old and in his 18th season, champion forward Lance Franklin remains crucial to anything the Swans hope to achieve in the final five rounds and beyond. That was the inescapable conclusion after a performance against Fremantle that was far more significant than his three goals suggested, with an equal game-high nine score involvements better reflecting his magnetic performance during crucial periods. While Logan McDonald showed superb skill at ground level for two goals, fellow tall Joel Amartey was held scoreless by the Fremantle defence. It remains Franklin, whose selflessness was another feature on Saturday night, who will determine the Swans' fate from the forward line. - Nathan Schmook'

[Auntie.Gerald]

Freeo was not a great indication of Bud should play on

Love him

Greatest forward I have seen besides Plugger and Dunstall……..and u could easily argue Bud did his goals in an era that was contained by a nightmare of flooding and zone defence which is so hard for FFs CHFs to stand out week in week out.

But I do worry that we have got our forward line recruitment very wrong if we are relying on Bud at 40yrs of age in 2024 vs another key forward for our future goals

[Hotpotato]

It’s an intriguing discussion. You clearly see the joy he (Bud) has to keep playing the game he loves so much.
All the pros and cons above are very reasonable observations .
Over the last few games, I could see him going around in 2024, yep, I could.