Round 24: Swans v Demons @ SCG

[i'm-uninformed2]

I find it astonishing that he lasted past pick 30. I find it surprising he wasn't higher than 21-22 on many clubs' boards, but flabbergasting that he wasn't higher on the Swans' board, given they had so much more access to him and must have known about his dedication, work ethic and footy IQ to a degree that the other clubs might not have realised.

I guess it is possible that the Swans' draft board reflected where they thought he would go rather than necessarily their ratings.

Even if they (the Swans) genuinely only rated him around 20ish, they might still have chosen to match a bid in the teens. It might have caused a hurried trading of a future second round pick to get the necessary points to match or they could have chosen to bear the deficit from the 2021 first round pick. If we had passed on Gulden we would have had to take a player with one of the junk picks we had at the end of the draft. I think overpaying (as they might have thought at the time) for a known quantity would have been a rational response.

Imagine if we had passed a much earlier pick and we were now watching him pick up his first AA selection in another club's colours. Gives me the heebie jeebies to think about that.

My understanding is they always intended to take him, simply because they knew they wouldn’t carry much of a deficit. Apparently they knew he wouldn’t go in that 15-20 range as the Pies and GWS - who had a streak of picks through that part of the draft - did no more than cursory meetings with him. They never thought he’d go earlier than that based on the intel they had, and the more likely window was Cats or Dees in early 20s.

As to exactly where we rated him, I don’t know.

My understanding is the bit that made us more nervous on draft night was accessing Logan. Obviously, JUH was going to the Dogs, Adelaide openly flagged Thilthorpe, and then it came down to what Norf did at 3. We rated Logan as high as anyone on the draft board, and couldn’t go quick enough to name him once Norf went for Phillips.

When you consider what Gulden has done this year, how elite Logan is obviously going to be, and I think Campbell has made great progress and will still prove a supreme player, it’s going to be one hell of a draft haul.

[Kafka's Ghost]

My understanding is they always intended to take him, simply because they knew they wouldn’t carry much of a deficit. Apparently they knew he wouldn’t go in that 15-20 range as the Pies and GWS - who had a streak of picks through that part of the draft - did no more than cursory meetings with him. They never thought he’d go earlier than that based on the intel they had, and the more likely window was Cats or Dees in early 20s.

As to exactly where we rated him, I don’t know.

My understanding is the bit that made us more nervous on draft night was accessing Logan. Obviously, JUH was going to the Dogs, Adelaide openly flagged Thilthorpe, and then it came down to what Norf did at 3. We rated Logan as high as anyone on the draft board, and couldn’t go quick enough to name him once Norf went for Phillips.

When you consider what Gulden has done this year, how elite Logan is obviously going to be, and I think Campbell has made great progress and will still prove a supreme player, it’s going to be one hell of a draft haul.

I was just thinking exactly the same thing.


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[Ruck'n'Roll]

I’ve gone back and read some of the draft profiles written about him, both from amateur watchers and professional journos, to see why he was not rated higher and from what I can gather it’s nothing specific but rather his height that was his “weakness”

Your comment prompted me to go back and look at what RWOers were saying - there was a lot of love being expressed in 2019, wishing he could be drafted at the end of that year.

[ugg]

I remember talking to an acquaintance who watched a lot of U18 football in what must have been 2019. He told me to look out for 3 names as standouts in that Swans Academy crop - Campbell, Gulden, and Jackson Barling. He was most effusive about Gulden at that time

[liz]

Your comment prompted me to go back and look at what RWOers were saying - there was a lot of love being expressed in 2019, wishing he could be drafted at the end of that year.

Just in case anyone needs something to do while killing time before our next match (on Sunday afternoon at NSO), I found this thread with comments from 2020. In addition to observations on Gulden and Campbell, it includes what must be the earliest RWO mentions of McAndrew. I haven't yet looked at comments from 2019. The RWO search function is a bit clunky (especially around date range searches).

Swans Academy Talent


Edit

I've now found the main academy discussion thread from 2019. Lots of Campbell and Gulden, as you'd expect. Post 126 includes a link to a Fairfax article about the pair. Quite understated in hindsight.

I cringed at a couple of my observations in post 152. Specifically where I described Campbell as not lightning quick (which, literally, is true but figuratively probably not), and where I suggest that Gulden's disposal isn't laser-like. Ouch.

http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php/43862-2019-Swans-academy-and-U18-discussion?highlight=2019%3B+academy

[ugg]

Moving slightly away from the adulation of Errol (not that it's in any way undeserved), I also found it interesting reading the draft reports and seeing the highlights of Campbell. One of the reasons he was rated (and drafted) so highly was his ability to play inside as well as outside, but it's a role that we've not seen him used in at senior AFL level. I wonder if in the long term we will eventually see him there or we'll stick with him as an outside mid/halfback flanker.

[Industrial Fan]

Moving back towards Errol… did anyone see the footage where he broke a kids arm with his bomb from 50m against Melbourne?

The ball was obviously moving at speed..

Was looking for the video but can’t find it.

[ugg]

We know Errol’s kicks have a bit behind them…but Swans fan Liam felt it first hand ????So we had to get him into the club to meet our latest All-Australian! pic.twitter.com/M4VqAu4hIC— Sydney Swans (@sydneyswans) August 31, 2023

https://twitter.com/sydneyswans/stat...78487793283496

[BRS328]

i’m-uninformed, a minor correction. I think you will find it was Hawthorn who had pick 3 that were considering playing a game by making a bid for Campbell in an attempt to force the Swans to take him so they could get Logan. I believe there were discussions in the lead up between the Swans and Hawthorn on this possibility, and the Swans called Hawthorn’s bluff by indicating they would pass on Campbell if this occurred

[neilfws]

We know Errol’s kicks have a bit behind them…but Swans fan Liam felt it first hand

"Did you mark it at least?"

Results probably as much if not more to do with catching technique than power...great fan story anyway.

[liz]

i’m-uninformed, a minor correction. I think you will find it was Hawthorn who had pick 3 that were considering playing a game by making a bid for Campbell in an attempt to force the Swans to take him so they could get Logan. I believe there were discussions in the lead up between the Swans and Hawthorn on this possibility, and the Swans called Hawthorn’s bluff by indicating they would pass on Campbell if this occurred

North held pick two at the start of the draft, which became pick three after the bid for Ugle-Hagen by Adelaide. We held pick three at the start, which dropped to pick four and was used on McDonald after North chose Phillips. Hawthorn's first pick came immediately after our first, and they bid on Campbell (before eventually drafted Grainger-Barass).

[i'm-uninformed2]

i’m-uninformed, a minor correction. I think you will find it was Hawthorn who had pick 3 that were considering playing a game by making a bid for Campbell in an attempt to force the Swans to take him so they could get Logan. I believe there were discussions in the lead up between the Swans and Hawthorn on this possibility, and the Swans called Hawthorn’s bluff by indicating they would pass on Campbell if this occurred

No. As I’ve posted on here before, Tom Papley’s wayward goal kicking in the final game of that season against Geelong cost us the game, but gifted us the higher draft pick. Hence, we got both Logan and Campbell. One of those twists of fate that can make a footy club. Thanks Paps.

And Liz, thanks for posting the Academy thread. It’s interesting to re-read and notice that Errol’s potential to be better than Campbell begins to emerge in a few of the posts from sharp observers, along with a couple of observations on his “Errol everywhere” position. I still have huge faith in Campbell, and he’s improved substantially this year and I expect him to impact games markedly next year - but it’s clear right now who the clubhouse leader is.

[stevoswan]

And Stephens finished 8th!

I noticed that also but didn't want to bring it up. That decision still really irritates me.

Me too!

[Scottee]

Moving slightly away from the adulation of Errol (not that it's in any way undeserved), I also found it interesting reading the draft reports and seeing the highlights of Campbell. One of the reasons he was rated (and drafted) so highly was his ability to play inside as well as outside, but it's a role that we've not seen him used in at senior AFL level. I wonder if in the long term we will eventually see him there or we'll stick with him as an outside mid/halfback flanker.

In my opinion Campbell is being played put of position. He has heaps of early speed and has a 2.85 seconds 20m to his credit. His advantage is in the middle where he can gain an early break, not in the positions requiring a high top speed plus stamina.

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[giant]

No. As I’ve posted on here before, Tom Papley’s wayward goal kicking in the final game of that season against Geelong cost us the game, but gifted us the higher draft pick. Hence, we got both Logan and Campbell. One of those twists of fate that can make a footy club. Thanks Paps.

And Liz, thanks for posting the Academy thread. It’s interesting to re-read and notice that Errol’s potential to be better than Campbell begins to emerge in a few of the posts from sharp observers, along with a couple of observations on his “Errol everywhere” position. I still have huge faith in Campbell, and he’s improved substantially this year and I expect him to impact games markedly next year - but it’s clear right now who the clubhouse leader is.

Rewatched last year's qualifying final v Melbourne as part of my Father's Day Swans fiesta - was a reminder of how far Errol has come, not that he was bad, but he was very much a bit player. No reason to think that Campbell doesn't have this additional gear in him as well.