AFL respect in Sydney

[scurrilous]

Originally posted by Damien
I think that is very much the view of non victorians and those with a fair mind within in it!

Oh really? Funny, last time I looked, I was born in and still reside in Victoria. I just have an open mind on the situation and can see both sides.

[Louellyn]

Well, this thread has degenerated considerably

Is it so much to ask for a semi-final to be played interstate, if the competing teams are interstate? I find the parochialism emanating from the Victorians dreary and short-sighted.

You are all forgetting that money runs this game now, and in time market forces will force the hand of the AFL. Be patient.

[neored]

Originally posted by Charlie
This is complete and utter crap. ONE game is not going to make a difference... living here, I hear garbage like this all the time... "It's our league, we earned it." It's bull, it really is. What escapes Victorian fans is that they can't just grab the money from interstate teams - the license fees, the merchandise, the travel packages, the TV DEAL... but then treat them like lesser members of the same competition.

Any Victorian who still thinks that the game should make unfair concessions for Victoria... well... Port Melbourne plays at TEAC Oval, fellas. You'll find Williamstown at Point Gellibrand. Coburg is at City Oval, down the road from where Pentridge used to be. Go follow them, because you aren't needed in the AFL.

What the heck are you going on about??? Grabbing money from license fees, merchandise and TV deals. Uhh

Hate to break it to you....

1.You'd like to take a look at how much money is made from interstate merchandising. The top merchandising sales are made from Collingwood , Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, Adelaide, West Coast , Port. Four of those clubs are from Victoria.

The proceeds of AFL endorsed merchandising is split equally amongst the 16 clubs. So if anybody is getting a good deal its Sydney and Brisbane

2. TV broadcasters paid $100 mil per year, predominantly because the big games rate. And 90 percent of the big games rate in Melbourne when a Victorian team plays. I dont see people in Sydney eagerly tuning in to watch Sydney vs Freo... I did however see 45,000 turn up to see Sydney play Essendon. Sydney's home game wasn't it, and aren't you playing Collingwood as well. I'm wondering where do those two clubs come from?

I'll tell you what , why doesn't the AFL fixture Freo to play Sydney at Telstra Stadium and we'll see how many people turn up to watch that match.

3. Ah the good old licensing fees, really you got an extroardinarily good deal. Not only do you have the privilege of playing in our competition , but you also got a share of the proceeds from the sale of Waverley.... Remember that ground??? Last time I checked Waverley was also situated in Victoria.

4. I do go and watch local footy, someone has to , this includes the TAC cup. You know .. the one where most of the top kids come from. The one which produces the overwhelming majority of draft picks.

Victoria is the heart of football and without the heart all you have is a dead competition. Just remember that.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by neored
What the heck are you going on about??? Grabbing money from license fees, merchandise and TV deals. Uhh

Hate to break it to you....

1.You'd like to take a look at how much money is made from interstate merchandising. The top merchandising sales are made from Collingwood , Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, Adelaide, West Coast , Port. Four of those clubs are from Victoria.

So adding West Coast, Brisbane, Adelaide, Freo and Port hasn't meant extra money in this area, as the fans of these clubs needed club gear. Of the 7 teams named 3 are from interstate your point. If it wasn't for the interstate clubs, the money coming in wouldn't be as great as it is and even then all clubs get the same amount back from the AFL, so if we interstate clubs are sucking off the Victorian club, what are you Vics doing to us interstaters????

The proceeds of AFL endorsed merchandising is split equally amongst the 16 clubs. So if anybody is getting a good deal its Sydney and Brisbane

How so, last time I checked the merger meant the fans of Brisbane had to go out and buy new gear, plus Sydney's Puma deal is better than Essendon's.

2. TV broadcasters paid $100 mil per year, predominantly because the big games rate. And 90 percent of the big games rate in Melbourne when a Victorian team plays. I dont see people in Sydney eagerly tuning in to watch Sydney vs Freo... I did however see 45,000 turn up to see Sydney play Essendon. Sydney's home game wasn't it, and aren't you playing Collingwood as well. I'm wondering where do those two clubs come from?

What do crowd figures have to do with the TV deal, anyway its a known fact 9/10/Fox only paid so much because it gave them access to the Sydney TV market which is the biggest in Australia and its also where most money from ads is made. Ratings had nothing to do with it - because they knew they would come and in 9's case they already lead the ratings by a country mile.

I'll tell you what , why doesn't the AFL fixture Freo to play Sydney at Telstra Stadium and we'll see how many people turn up to watch that match.

We'll find out come September. BTW the crowd figures for the Essendon match are falling better replace them with a team on the up.

3. Ah the good old licensing fees, really you got an extroardinarily good deal. Not only do you have the privilege of playing in our competition , but you also got a share of the proceeds from the sale of Waverley.... Remember that ground??? Last time I checked Waverley was also situated in Victoria.

The Swans got a **** deal not only did we give the league $5m twice when we were already were an original founding team (thus also giving us a right to the Waverley money), but we got only $2m in return. Its also well documented that the money from our licence fee kept 8 clubs in profit for 1985 including Essendon in their back to back premiership year.

4. I do go and watch local footy, someone has to , this includes the TAC cup. You know .. the one where most of the top kids come from. The one which produces the overwhelming majority of draft picks.

What this got to do with anything??? There is local footy interstate and unlike Victoria it is actully going strong. We didn't need to merge the 2nd comp with any local league.

Victoria is the heart of football and without the heart all you have is a dead competition. Just remember that.

Bull****, your just scared what would of happened without us, even Ross Oakley stated without the interstate clubs we would of gone broke soon enough

[Charlie]

Originally posted by neored


3. Ah the good old licensing fees, really you got an extroardinarily good deal. Not only do you have the privilege of playing in our competition ,

How dare you even call it YOUR league. How dare you talk down to our club. Go back to Bomberland where you clearly belong, if this is the sort of garbage you're going to sprout.

Check up on your history pal... you'll find that the 6 clubs that formed the VFL in 1896 were Essendon, Collingwood, Geelong, Melbourne, Fitzroy and SOUTH MELBOURNE. That's right... we had to pay a license fee to be in OUR COMPETITION. We have more claims to it than Carlton, St Kilda, Richmond, Bulldogs, 'Roos and Hawthorn will ever have, using that logic.

[jixygirl]

What is everybody going on about? Licencing fees and merchandise sales, we sound like the AFL talking about why the interstate teams are disadvantaged/advantaged. When people discuss who's league the AFL is, they just have to look at what it stands for: AUSTRALIAN Football league. That should settle the case and the AFL should act like it is that. Not the victorian football league or the interstate football league.

[footyhead]

hear hear jixygirl

[Dave]

I cannot understand the way some Victorians carry on about THEIR game.

I was born in Melbourne but have lived most of my life in NSW & Sydney. I have spent the last 18 years defending AFL in this city and it still is a constant fight.

Just last week I had a heated discussion with my work colleagues about the merits of AFL.

My boss loves the ra-ra (rugby union), being an ex private schoolboy and all that, and stated that AFL is just a scramble. I suggested that maybe he was thinking of his own sport.
He also claims that it's not played seriously out of Vic.
Fool.

Another bloke who said he hated all football codes (5' 10", 110kg= Pork chop) claimed that AFL is not a national sport because not EVERY player for the Swans was born in Sydney - work that one out! He said that most players come from Melbourne so it's still just a Victorian sport. By the way his favourite "sport" is motor racing. Using that logic I said that Holden (his brand) therefore can't be a national car brand because they also come out of Victoira. Apparently that's different.
He also claimed that the players were all fairies to which I replied that he wouldn't last 5 mins on a footy field before getting clobbered. (or having a heart attack)
Moron.

On the way home from work I flick between the two main radio sports shows to grasp a snippet of any AFL news or perhaps an interview. It is always left to the last few minutes of the show. Without fail some Dopey rugby league twit will ring up and complain about the 5 mins of time wasted on "GAYFL" and how "we don't care" , "arial ping pong" (Ho-hum) etc, etc.
Half the time the hosts just let them go and then say "Ha ha, obviously not an AFL supporter."

The point I'm trying to make is that I stick up for EVERY team and the competition as a whole, ie AFL ,and it doesn't help when your being attacked from both sides.

On the upside my 3yr old son was allowed to watch a tiny bit of the State of Origin the other night. After about 10 mins he said "Dad, I don't like this, I like the Swannies better!"

Maybe there is hope in this town yet!

[neored]

Originally posted by robbieando
So adding West Coast, Brisbane, Adelaide, Freo and Port hasn't meant extra money in this area, as the fans of these clubs needed club gear. Of the 7 teams named 3 are from interstate your point. If it wasn't for the interstate clubs, the money coming in wouldn't be as great as it is and even then all clubs get the same amount back from the AFL, so if we interstate clubs are sucking off the Victorian club, what are you Vics doing to us interstaters????

You've totally missed my point. The bulk of merchandising is generated by Victorian clubs, by Victorian supporters. Undoubtedly interstate clubs have added to the overall pool, but to suggest that Victorian clubs are somehow stealing from interstate merchandising is nonsensical.

How so, last time I checked the merger meant the fans of Brisbane had to go out and buy new gear, plus Sydney's Puma deal is better than Essendon's.

No one is forced to go out and buy new merchandising. I see many Essendon supporters who haven't bought the new "3 guernsey". I dont hold that against them , I dont regard them as lesser supporters. Many people choose to buy generic merchandising... thats fine.

And as for overall marketing power including merchandising, we have a waiting list of sponsors eager to sign up. Incidentally have you found a ball sponsor? Ours is from NSW, its interesting to see that a NSW company wouldn't seek to invest money in a NSW club.

What do crowd figures have to do with the TV deal, anyway its a known fact 9/10/Fox only paid so much because it gave them access to the Sydney TV market which is the biggest in Australia and its also where most money from ads is made. Ratings had nothing to do with it - because they knew they would come and in 9's case they already lead the ratings by a country mile.

We'll find out come September. BTW the crowd figures for the Essendon match are falling better replace them with a team on the up.

The bulk of the deal was financed by Channel 9. Fox and 10 are subsidiary partners. Nine wanted the Friday night matches : 1) Because they rate the highest , and these matches inevitably involve Victorian clubs.

Incidentally have any Sydney matches being able to get over single figures in NSW ratings. And if they have which clubs were involved?

And as for the Telstra Stadium crowd figures well 45,00 was double what you've been able to get so far. I fully expect people to jump on the bandwagon if you continue your good form. I also expect the same people to drop off when you take a slide.

The Swans got a **** deal not only did we give the league $5m twice when we were already were an original founding team (thus also giving us a right to the Waverley money), but we got only $2m in return. Its also well documented that the money from our licence fee kept 8 clubs in profit for 1985 including Essendon in their back to back premiership year.

You are not an original founding team. South Melbourne died the minute is was relocated, as did Fitzroy. I have no issue with the demise of these two clubs, it was inevitable, theres no doubt in my mind that more will go. But to suggest that you're a founding team is insulting. South Melbourne is dead , as is Fitzroy any suggestion that the prostituted versions we have in Sydney and Brisbane are reincarnations is bloody absurd.

What this got to do with anything??? There is local footy interstate and unlike Victoria it is actully going strong. We didn't need to merge the 2nd comp with any local league.

Bull****, your just scared what would of happened without us, even Ross Oakley stated without the interstate clubs we would of gone broke soon enough

Of course local footy has everything to do with it. Mate where are the players going to come from? The majority of players are from Victoria, unless the AFL decides to reduce the number of players in each team to 5, then the continued success of the AFL is dependant on a healthy Victorian competition.

Absolute crap, the competition would never of gone broke, people in Victoria love the game. It would of survived and eventually flourished.

See this is what really pisses me off, this suggestion that you saved the competition , or that you should be given a pat on the back. The people who save the competition are those who go and watch the matches week in and week out. Not bandwagon jumpers, not Johnny come latelies. I'm talking about those who go and watch their team week in week out.

I know you'll find this hard to believe, but I have a soft spot for Sydney. Its great to see a young team and young coach doing well.... really it is.Despite the fact that you shafted us by 1 point in 1996, for some reason I've always had a soft spot for the club.

But the fact is many interstate supporters have come on board when the foundations were laid by the Victorian people. They dont appreciate how many years of effort were put into making the competition what it is. They take things for granted including our support for the game... and if the AFL is not careful then they'll alienate more and more supporters.

A national competition is important BUT the priority must always be with Victoria.

[Angelic Upstart]

Originally posted by neored

South Melbourne died the minute is was relocated, as did Fitzroy... to suggest that you're a founding team is insulting. South Melbourne is dead , as is Fitzroy any suggestion that the prostituted versions we have in Sydney and Brisbane are reincarnations is bloody absurd.

You have no idea, do you? Tell that to the thousands of old South fans who turn out to watch the Swans every time they play down here.
But I suppose being an Essendon fan you're only 12 years old and don't know any better.

[NMWBloods]

The bulk of the deal was financed by Channel 9. Fox and 10 are subsidiary partners. Nine wanted the Friday night matches : 1) Because they rate the highest , and these matches inevitably involve Victorian clubs.

Ch 9 have already acknowledged that Sydney was a significant part of the TV deal and without Sydney the price paid would not have been nearly so high.

You are not an original founding team. South Melbourne died the minute is was relocated, as did Fitzroy. I have no issue with the demise of these two clubs, it was inevitable, theres no doubt in my mind that more will go. But to suggest that you're a founding team is insulting. South Melbourne is dead , as is Fitzroy any suggestion that the prostituted versions we have in Sydney and Brisbane are reincarnations is bloody absurd.

The South Melbourne and Fitzroy cases are different. Comments like this show you have no idea of the history and culture of the Swans, hence undermining your arguments.

Absolute crap, the competition would never of gone broke, people in Victoria love the game. It would of survived and eventually flourished.

The VFL competition would never have grown the the degree it has without the interstate clubs. It would have remained a relatively small league, well short of the current money it has and a number of clubs would have (see - it's 'have' not 'of') been in trouble and possible gone broke.

See this is what really pisses me off, this suggestion that you saved the competition , or that you should be given a pat on the back. The people who save the competition are those who go and watch the matches week in and week out. Not bandwagon jumpers, not Johnny come latelies. I'm talking about those who go and watch their team week in week out.

A key part about the competition surviving are the licence fee and TV rights. Money from members and spectators would not enable clubs to spend as much as they currently do.

A national competition is important BUT the priority must always be with Victoria.

But without the national competition there is no effective, thriving Victorian league any more.

[Charlie]

You are not an original founding team. South Melbourne died the minute is was relocated, as did Fitzroy. I have no issue with the demise of these two clubs, it was inevitable, theres no doubt in my mind that more will go. But to suggest that you're a founding team is insulting. South Melbourne is dead , as is Fitzroy any suggestion that the prostituted versions we have in Sydney and Brisbane are reincarnations is bloody absurd.

I can't believe some people. You are actually arrogant enough to come onto RWO, and tell US who OUR team is? Just go back where you came from... you know nothing about OUR CLUB.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by neored
You've totally missed my point. The bulk of merchandising is generated by Victorian clubs, by Victorian supporters. Undoubtedly interstate clubs have added to the overall pool, but to suggest that Victorian clubs are somehow stealing from interstate merchandising is nonsensical.

But its OK to say the interstate clubs are stealing from Victorian merchandising. Also do you have a clue how much each club raises from merchandising sales. West Coast and Adelaide sell, just as much merchandice as Essendon and Collingwood do. Also Brisbane are on par with Carlton and the Swans outsell Richmond. Port and Freo are on par with the rest of the Victorian clubs. Victoria doesn't sell the bulk, but an equal part.

No one is forced to go out and buy new merchandising. I see many Essendon supporters who haven't bought the new "3 guernsey". I dont hold that against them , I dont regard them as lesser supporters. Many people choose to buy generic merchandising... thats fine.

What I was saying is, that the existing clubs fans already had club gear and when the other clubs joined their fans had to go out and buy everything in one go.

And as for overall marketing power including merchandising, we have a waiting list of sponsors eager to sign up. Incidentally have you found a ball sponsor? Ours is from NSW, its interesting to see that a NSW company wouldn't seek to invest money in a NSW club.

We had a ball sponsor before Essendon got one and who care where sponsors come from, maybe your sponsor was looking to expose itself in the Melbourne market.

The bulk of the deal was financed by Channel 9. Fox and 10 are subsidiary partners. Nine wanted the Friday night matches : 1) Because they rate the highest , and these matches inevitably involve Victorian clubs.

Ah no. If Ch 9 paid so much more than the other 2 why did Ch 10 end up with the rights for the finals?? And these games rate much better than the H&A games. Of the Friday Night games this year 7 of 22 games involved interstate teams.

Incidentally have any Sydney matches being able to get over single figures in NSW ratings. And if they have which clubs were involved?

Yes and every game has rated over 10. Including games that weren't shown live, but at 9.30pm

And as for the Telstra Stadium crowd figures well 45,00 was double what you've been able to get so far. I fully expect people to jump on the bandwagon if you continue your good form. I also expect the same people to drop off when you take a slide.

Just like 1996 people got on and people got off, but of the people that got on many stayed and that will happen again.

You are not an original founding team. South Melbourne died the minute is was relocated, as did Fitzroy. I have no issue with the demise of these two clubs, it was inevitable, theres no doubt in my mind that more will go. But to suggest that you're a founding team is insulting. South Melbourne is dead , as is Fitzroy any suggestion that the prostituted versions we have in Sydney and Brisbane are reincarnations is bloody absurd.

You are a fool aren't you, so why then does the AFL reckonise our history from 1874????? Why are the Swans naming a Team of the Century???? Why in 1996 did the Swans take part in the renactment matches???? Why are we still called the Swans and play in Red and White?????????

Of course local footy has everything to do with it. Mate where are the players going to come from? The majority of players are from Victoria, unless the AFL decides to reduce the number of players in each team to 5, then the continued success of the AFL is dependant on a healthy Victorian competition.

So why did the TAC Cup have teams from NSW/ACT and Tasmania??? Your local leagues are dieing. Have you been to country football lately???? Its dieing

Absolute crap, the competition would never of gone broke, people in Victoria love the game. It would of survived and eventually flourished.

So the then boss of the AFL Ross Oakley was talking out of his arse??? He said the league would of gone broke by 2000 if they didn't expand interstate, because costs were rising, but income wasn't. Expanding the league has seen the league being able to get the huge TV deal, more sponsors and more fans to the games. The licence fees help whenever they come in. The VFL needed the interstate clubs more than you think. Without them the league wouldn't of been as big as it is today.

See this is what really pisses me off, this suggestion that you saved the competition , or that you should be given a pat on the back. The people who save the competition are those who go and watch the matches week in and week out. Not bandwagon jumpers, not Johnny come latelies. I'm talking about those who go and watch their team week in week out.

Wrong, the johnny come latelies bring in extra money that the hardcore fans can't.

I know you'll find this hard to believe, but I have a soft spot for Sydney. Its great to see a young team and young coach doing well.... really it is.Despite the fact that you shafted us by 1 point in 1996, for some reason I've always had a soft spot for the club.

How could we shafted you in 1996, we won fair and square.

But the fact is many interstate supporters have come on board when the foundations were laid by the Victorian people. They dont appreciate how many years of effort were put into making the competition what it is. They take things for granted including our support for the game... and if the AFL is not careful then they'll alienate more and more supporters.

Never mind the fact that one of the men who created the game was from NSW and of course nevermind the fact the SANFL and WAFL was just as strong as the VFL. The reason why the VFL is the AFL today is because they moved on getting interstate clubs first. Don't tell me that the interstate clubs have not added anything to this league because it would then prove what a self deluded fool you are.

A national competition is important BUT the priority must always be with Victoria.

Why is that??? The priority must be the league itself not just one state. Before too long you'll find that there will be more interstate teams than Victorian teams. Mark my word

AND BTW I'M A BORN AND BRED VICTORIAN

[neored]

Originally posted by robbieando
But its OK to say the interstate clubs are stealing from Victorian merchandising. Also do you have a clue how much each club raises from merchandising sales. West Coast and Adelaide sell, just as much merchandice as Essendon and Collingwood do. Also Brisbane are on par with Carlton and the Swans outsell Richmond. Port and Freo are on par with the rest of the Victorian clubs. Victoria doesn't sell the bulk, but an equal part.

I've never claimed that interstate clubs were stealing from Victorian clubs, I was refuting an assertion that Victorian clubs were stealing from interstate clubs.

In the case of merchandising , theres no doubt that West Coast , Adelaide and to a lesser extent Pt. Adelaide generate substantial merchandising sales. But use some logic, Essendon generated $2.2 million in merchandising last year, using Essendon as measuring stick, and calculating on a sliding scale you get a rough idea of overall sales. Taking into account the fact that there are more Victorian clubs than interstate clubs, I fail to see how you can possibly come to the conclusion that Victorian and interstate merchandising is on even par. I would say that its a 60-40 share.

What I was saying is, that the existing clubs fans already had club gear and when the other clubs joined their fans had to go out and buy everything in one go.

We had a ball sponsor before Essendon got one and who care where sponsors come from, maybe your sponsor was looking to expose itself in the Melbourne market.

Again nobody is forced to by merchandise, I know people who knit their own scarves. Merchandising is a luxury for those that can afford it, its not a necessity.

You might well be right, they may have wanted to expose their branding name in Melbourne.

But let me point out , It wasn't our president who came out a few weeks ago , crying poor , claiming that our revenue from endorsements had dropped by $3 million was it?

Ah no. If Ch 9 paid so much more than the other 2 why did Ch 10 end up with the rights for the finals?? And these games rate much better than the H&A games. Of the Friday Night games this year 7 of 22 games involved interstate teams.

Yes and every game has rated over 10. Including games that weren't shown live, but at 9.30pm

Wrong... Plainly Simply Wrong.

Ch 10 ended up with the finals rights for many reasons none of them related to financial compensation. Its widely acknowledged that Packer was livid when he found out that the finals had been passed over by nine. Many have attributed the demise of the 9 CEO to this decision...

Nine have subsequently tried to save face by claiming that they're absolutely thrilled with the Friday night games.

Of the friday night games 22/22 games involved Victorian clubs. Otherwise no one in Victoria would bother watching. That is why the Friday 8:30 to 11 ad spots are heavily pursued by corporations , alongside the 6- 7 spots and the Monday 7-10 spots.

And as for the Sydney games , which have been the highest rating?

ust like 1996 people got on and people got off, but of the people that got on many stayed and that will happen again.

Looking at your crowd figures this year more left than stayed. I remember the ground was packed 7 years ago. Now unless Sydneys supporters have a higher mortality rate then Victorian clubs, then this years figures are a damning indictment on some of your supporters.

You are a fool aren't you, so why then does the AFL reckonise our history from 1874????? Why are the Swans naming a Team of the Century???? Why in 1996 did the Swans take part in the renactment matches???? Why are we still called the Swans and play in Red and White?????????

I couldn't give a rats toss what the AFL chooses to recognise. For example take a look at this years History of AFL encyclopedia, they completely omitted any mention of State Of Origin. Poof, Gone. The AFL is very selective in what it chooses to recognise.

Secondly I'll admit that I was harsh in my previous post. Obviously there are supporters out there who have crossed over and still regard Sydney as South Melbourne. My own personal view has been that when a side changes its name , its location, alters its uniform,its not the same club. Though the South Melbourne spirit is still alive, theres no doubt that the current version is more Sydney than South Melbourne.

So why did the TAC Cup have teams from NSW/ACT and Tasmania??? Your local leagues are dieing. Have you been to country football lately???? Its dieing

And.....??? the majority of clubs are Victorian, the overwhelming majority of players drafted are Victorian. What are you having difficulty understanding?

No I haven't gone to a country football match in 3 years. I go to local footy.Living in an inner city suburb and working full time makes it impossible for me to go. Everyone knows country football is dying , thats exactly my bloody point. The AFL has neglected the people that made the game what it is.

So the then boss of the AFL Ross Oakley was talking out of his arse??? He said the league would of gone broke by 2000 if they didn't expand interstate, because costs were rising, but income wasn't. Expanding the league has seen the league being able to get the huge TV deal, more sponsors and more fans to the games. The licence fees help whenever they come in. The VFL needed the interstate clubs more than you think. Without them the league wouldn't of been as big as it is today.

Wrong, the johnny come latelies bring in extra money that the hardcore fans can't.

"if" the league had gone broke (which it wouldn't have) then it would of been due to the incompetence of those in charge. In any case Ross Oakleigh is widely acknowledged as being an alarmist.

The huge TV deal was due not to interstate clubs but the over inflated broadcasting market that was present at that time. European soccer, NBA , NFL all experienced the same upsurge. Since then the bubble has burst and there will be nothing like that type of money floating around. The AFL was lucky.

The Johnny come latelies merely top up what is already there. Without the hardcore supporters there would be no clubs, no AFL, and no Johnny come latelies. Supporters , especially Victorian supporters are the life blood of the competition. Dont forget that.

How could we shafted you in 1996, we won fair and square.

I was using the term loosely, stuck it up us.

Never mind the fact that one of the men who created the game was from NSW and of course nevermind the fact the SANFL and WAFL was just as strong as the VFL. The reason why the VFL is the AFL today is because they moved on getting interstate clubs first. Don't tell me that the interstate clubs have not added anything to this league because it would then prove what a self deluded fool you are.

Really? What history book have you read that makes such a claim? The game wasn't created by one man or two it evolved. The first "game" between Scots College and Xavier occured 150 years ago, without any real rules. Then on 8th May 1866 4 clubs met at Freemasons Hotel to draw up 12 common rules.

The VFL was always the most popular competition, the SANFL was alo well attended. The VFL had the largest crowds and was able to attract some very good players from the other competitions.

I've never denied the fact that the competition is all the better because of the interstate presence. But let me repeat that without a healthy Victorian competition then the AFL is doomed.

Why is that??? The priority must be the league itself not just one state. Before too long you'll find that there will be more interstate teams than Victorian teams. Mark my word

Mate let me put this simply. Victorian produces the talent, its got the supporter base, the majority of clubs come from Victoria. The best 2 stadiums are in Victoria. The history and tradition are in Victoria, the new hall of fame will be in Victoria.

How is it that you cant see how very important Victoria is? Of course Victoria should be given special attention. Without the heart the rest of the body is utterly useless.

I doubt that can be any more clubs. Where? Brisbane .. its supporter base is still growing.

Sydney?... that the last thing you need, dilute the markert

Adelaide?... Port's supporter base is either tight arse or not as large as the AFL thought.

W.A ... Until recently fremantle couldn't even manage to get over 20,000

NT... too hot, humid and insufficient population.

Tassy... possible but not enough corporate presence.

AND BTW I'M A BORN AND BRED VICTORIAN [/B]

JUDAS

[NMWBloods]

Obviously there are supporters out there who have crossed over and still regard Sydney as South Melbourne. My own personal view has been that when a side changes its name , its location, alters its uniform,its not the same club. Though the South Melbourne spirit is still alive, theres no doubt that the current version is more Sydney than South Melbourne.

This is a very narrow-minded and simplistic view. So you are saying that Western Bulldogs and Kangaroos fans are now following a different team?

What about all those teams that have changed their jumper in the past hundred years? - some of them are quite different.

What's location? Is it where you train? Is it where you play? Is it the city in which you reside? Obviously you'll argue city, but why is that so different to suburb. Hawthorn, for example, has changed its home ground frequently over the years.

Finally, of course the Swans is now more Sydney than Melbourne, but it doesn't preclude the previous history. All clubs are more professional than they were, but it doesn't preclude their amateur pasts.