Can we win the flag ?

[Reggi]

I tend to agree with Lizz - think we will find come finals that our lack of physical size will hurt us

[sharp9]

Speaking of depth...

The thing I love about watching the team this year is that I feel a twinge of disappointment with EVERY SINGLE INTERCHANGE (except for Nicks and Warfe). This is immediately replaced by a little surge of optimism as the new player runs on

What that means is that there are 22 regulars for the Swans (including Powell) whose presence on the field will be missed

And 22 players who could realistically have an impact.

.....Sundqvist, Schneider, Powell, O'keefe, LRT - just some of our "bottom four"

Gee I bet there's a few other clubs would have them from 19-22.

No one is really taking games by the scruff of the neck from week to week but on any given day it could be Micky or Nicky or Bazz or Captain or B1 or B2 or Leaping Leo or Tiger, Willo, Cressa or Maxi.

Opposition can't say "stop so and so and you stop the Swans."



Except Jude, actually....but I don't want to ruin my lovely theory.

[Jon]

Originally posted by Reggi
I tend to agree with Lizz - think we will find come finals that our lack of physical size will hurt us

Possibly. But not definitely. Your fears may prove correct if the Port experience is not learned from. But I'm sure the weather conditions masked our true capabilities in that match, and if we had kicked straight at the very least it wouldn't have been such a heavy defeat.

The size/strength issue has been a worry since the preseason. Many pundits wrote us off for that very reason, but I think Sydney has shown that being well drilled can offset this a lot. It has in fact become one of our great strengths.

Lack of bodyweight = speed.

Their looks may be deceiving, though. Even our slightest players seem able to hold their own. Kirk, Tiger, Leo and Craig Bolton are not bulky, but their defensive work is outstanding and I'm told that Craig is actully one of the strongest players in the team. Saddo uses his height and experience well, and is no mug either. Maxfield, Crouch, Willo, Mathews, Cressa, and Jude all have a strong psysical presence on the field, but as with the rest, it's the way they put themselves around the ground to help each other out that takes this side from being merely competitive to being dominant.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Steve
We didn't miss Lockett as much in the Rd 22 game which was in the wet, but I reckon based on the way we struggled to beat an average side in Hawthorn, WC (who won that next week by 50+) would most likely have beaten us.

Yep - that's a fair point.

[Jon]

Originally posted by Steve
The old system of 1st vs 8th etc meant that we were able to play a side who just snuck into the finals with only 11.5 wins.

We didn't miss Lockett as much in the Rd 22 game which was in the wet, but I reckon based on the way we struggled to beat an average side in Hawthorn, WC (who won that next week by 50+) would most likely have beaten us.

The way things panned out we were lucky to beat Essendon after having a weeks break, and with Lockett back in the side (not that he was anywhere near fit). Had we played them a week earlier I'm not so sure it would have been a positive result.

But that's just my opinion, and I guess who cares anyway with the way things turned out.

Have to agree.

'96 was an extreme example of the importance of home finals. We limped into that campaign. Lockett was a crock (bless him), Roos was sore, Kickett's body was starting to give Eade so little confidence that he barely played a role, Kelly had bashed himself to a standstill as usual, Dunkley was not only sore, but had the added annoyance of the gouging charge to throw out his whole preparation, Mooney was stuffed, O'Brien went out early in the final...the list goes on.

Meanwhile the Roos hammered all and sundry, and coasted into a final against a side of the draw where no matter who made the final, they'd be unbackable unnderdogs. Essendon could barely field a team by the time Lockett kicked that glorious point, and the Hawks lost Dunstall early in a game they almost won regardless.

The Roos were always going to play out the last qtr. We had to bury them early to have a hope. When Lockett dropped that mark, and the Roos rebounded for a 2 goal turnaround, the season almost ended there and then.

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by robbieando
We wern't, we were very lucky to get top spot in the end. If we had lost in the last round we would of finished 4th. So I very much doubt we were the best team that year and we certainly don't have a premiership cup sitting in Driver Ave from it.



Yes this was a good win, but one that was very much unexpected even given our good form leading up to the match. The Carlton, was the making of the team and a brave one considering Lockett had an off day and was a pointer to what would happen later on in the year without him.



We were very very very very lucky to make it in the first place. Our last month of the season, brought us a few close wins and a close loss to Essendon and don't forget if it wasn't for Dunstall doing his knee we most likely would of gone without the week off. The Essendon Final we shouldn't of won from where we were with 4 minutes left. We got out of a hole like we did so offen that season.



Direen wasn't fit enough to play and hadn't played since Round 4. Rocca didn't put in once while at the club and playing him in the Grand Final, would of cost us much earlier in the match. Frosty that year was one of our best and Garlick was a handy goalkicker off the bench. I was happy with the line up.


In fact he wasn't, and he went off early in the first quarter. At that stage we were playing the better football. What cost us was Kelly deciding to pass to Lockett instead of having a shot himself. He missed Lockett with the pass, North got the ball and ran up the field to kick a much needed goal. Instead of being something like 5 goals up, we were 3 goals up and North got on a roll. I don't say we lost a Grand Final by 43 points, I say we lost by 5cm.

Going into the match North were the heavy favouties, so to say we were the better team is a false fantacy. We got lucky in 1996 and road the luck all the way to the Grand Final. In retrospek, we peaked too early and in the years to come paid for it by believing a premiership was 1 or 2 players away and we kept believing this for 5 years.

I disagree with virtually everything you said there, over the year
I strongly believe we were the best side, you were obviously far too guided by the media Robbie.

Scotty Direen didn't play after Rd 4 hey??? ... That's absolute rubbish mate, he played nearly every game right up until the last few of the h&a season. Why wasn't he fit enough? I don't think you've got any idea to be honest.

We were a little better than, just having "luck" mate. We lost 1 game down here, and that was against Essendon, with Plugger on one leg after the clash with Barry Young, even then we weren't disgraced, if my memory serves me correctly we got beaten by about 3 goals. We were finding our feet early in the year, and after the first 2 games we only lost another 3.

We beat the Eagles by 5 goals in the wet, in the last game with no plugger, think that was a fair effort just quietly. We then played Hawthorn in the first week, and they played to the best of their ability, but we still managed to get over the line, again with no Plugger. Then history shows that preliminary finals are hard to win, but we still won, even if it was after the siren from the great man. We were 25 points in front midway through the 2nd quarter of the GF, and if things had just gone how way, then who knows.

I bet you weren't saying we were 2nd best in '96?
We weren't standouts but we were equally as good as North if not better.

Hopefully this is our year.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Plugger46
I disagree with virtually everything you said there, over the year I strongly believe we were the best side, you were obviously far too guided by the media Robbie.

At least I know what I'm talking about - you don't.

Scotty Direen didn't play after Rd 4 hey??? ... That's absolute rubbish mate, he played nearly every game right up until the last few of the h&a season. Why wasn't he fit enough? I don't think you've got any idea to be honest.

Proves that you are a fool. Direen was injuried in the Round 4 match against Richmond with a Spinial injury and missed the rest of the season. Don't believe me - I still have the article from back then.

We were a little better than, just having "luck" mate. We lost 1 game down here, and that was against Essendon, with Plugger on one leg after the clash with Barry Young, even then we weren't disgraced, if my memory serves me correctly we got beaten by about 3 goals. We were finding our feet early in the year, and after the first 2 games we only lost another 3.

I didn't say we didn't desever to be there, but late in the season, luck had a lot to do with our wins. BTW Plugger was injuried before the clash with Young.

We beat the Eagles by 5 goals in the wet, in the last game with no plugger, think that was a fair effort just quietly. We then played Hawthorn in the first week, and they played to the best of their ability, but we still managed to get over the line, again with no Plugger. Then history shows that preliminary finals are hard to win, but we still won, even if it was after the siren from the great man. We were 25 points in front midway through the 2nd quarter of the GF, and if things had just gone how way, then who knows.

We beat the Eagles thank to the fact we kicked away in the last quarter. We were VERY lucky against Hawthorn, the fact Danstall went down with a knee injury has everything to do with it. The Swans themselves said if Danstall didn't go off we would of lost. In the Prelim Final, Essendon were 4 goals up in the 1st quarter, so they could of gone on but didn't, we lucked out against Essendon, things went right when we needed them to. The Grand Final as I said come down to one moment, the moment Kelly missed Lockett with the pass.

I bet you weren't saying we were 2nd best in '96?
We weren't standouts but we were equally as good as North if not better.

Ask my friends and they will tell at no point did I think we would win a premiership and it wasn't until Grand Final week I changed my mind. All season I felt North, played better and we only finished on top thanks to the draw in Round 6 when we came from 26 points behind with little time remaining. Also North's % was better than ours.

Hopefully this is our year.

Hopefully it is

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by robbieando
Proves that you are a fool. Direen was injuried in the Round 4 match against Richmond with a Spinial injury and missed the rest of the season. Don't believe me - I still have the article from back then.

Direen came back later in the season and played from rds 13-21.

[Roscoe]

Sorry Robbie, but the story on Scott Direen is incorrect.
He was our permanent back-pocket player and kick in man until that MCG match against the Bombers when Plugger got reported.
I was there at the MCG that day in front of a 70,000 crowd.
Direen had played well all year, but that day C***aToo Collins gave him a hiding and he was replaced by Frosty, and never regained his spot.

As for your other arguments, I think you aren't too far off the mark

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Roscoe
Sorry Robbie, but the story on Scott Direen is incorrect.
He was our permanent back-pocket player and kick in man until that MCG match against the Bombers when Plugger got reported.
I was there at the MCG that day in front of a 70,000 crowd.
Direen had played well all year, but that day C***aToo Collins gave him a hiding and he was replaced by Frosty, and never regained his spot.

Just did some checking and he only played 13 games in 1996, so he wasn't our permanent back pocket all season. He did suffer a back injury in the Round 4 match and did miss a large part of the season, making it back for only 9 matches before being dropped. I forgot he even made it back to be honest. Still I don't think he would of improved our side

[SXP]

There's perhaps another interesting reason why the Swans can't get enough respect in the media this year for all their achievement.
I've checked this year results and noticed that there was only one game where Swans dominated the game all 4 quarters and that was in round 1 against Carlton. Since than they always allowed the opposition to win at least 1 or 2 quarters, which proved costly when they played Port. That might work with lesser teams, but not teams like Port. Port punished them solidly, because they were better team on the day. If this happens again in the finals the odds are against us because other teams usually play with greater intensity. Can the Swans increase theirs an ddominate for example all 4 quarters, or perhaps I'm asking too much of them.
This could be yet another reason why is Roosy so cautious when talking about finals.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by SXP
I've checked this year results and noticed that there was only one game where Swans dominated the game all 4 quarters and that was in round 1 against Carlton. Since than they always allowed the opposition to win at least 1 or 2 quarters, which proved costly when they played Port. That might work with lesser teams, but not teams like Port.

What I've noticed is that over the season, whether we win or lose, our 3rd quarter is our worst. We have a net loss of points in the 3rd qtr (ie: pts against > pts for). We do very well in the last qtr, and generally it is the second qtr that is most variable.

[bloodboy]

We have to believe

I have not been to a match all year, I have seen only a few minutes of our highlights, so I am probably not a great judge of our chances...I am still very apprehensive about our place on the ladder - that is just the way you get after supporting the swans for your whole life. I don't know if we have earned it, but can you just fluke 2nd place on the ladder after 17 rounds of footy? I wouldn't have thought so.

But in saying all this - I still believe we can do it. I am very excited about the upcoming finals and what we could achieve in a season where everybody had written us off. I don't think there is much harm in getting excited. WE all need to get out there and support the boys every week from now on - show the dumbass journos in Melbourne what we can achieve! C'MON GUYS - WE CAN DO IT! I'll be screaming my lungs out in London!

[Xie Shan]

Originally posted by SXP
There's perhaps another interesting reason why the Swans can't get enough respect in the media this year for all their achievement.
I've checked this year results and noticed that there was only one game where Swans dominated the game all 4 quarters and that was in round 1 against Carlton. Since than they always allowed the opposition to win at least 1 or 2 quarters, which proved costly when they played Port. That might work with lesser teams, but not teams like Port. Port punished them solidly, because they were better team on the day. If this happens again in the finals the odds are against us because other teams usually play with greater intensity. Can the Swans increase theirs an ddominate for example all 4 quarters, or perhaps I'm asking too much of them.
This could be yet another reason why is Roosy so cautious when talking about finals.

I'm not totally certain but I vaguely remember reading an article some time back about their new fitness regime having an emphasis on recovery and not working the players too hard, instead focussing on short, sharp bursts, one of the reasons for this may have been in line with the way most games are played - where you won't often see one team dominate for 4 qtrs anyway,
so maybe this is part of the plan, to conserve energy while taking full advantage of the times during the game when they do have the momentum?

[Plugger46]

Apoligies when you're ready Robbieando. Apparently I'm a fool, think it could be the other way around just quietly.