Number 2 tries harder

[dimelb]

After watching today's GF I reckon that even without Ball and Magic we gave Brisbane a harder game than Cwood without Rocca, and would do again. I reckon we rate no. 2 over the season, with a chance to improve next year.

[motorace_182]

They are disgusting, the worst performance in a long time. We were depleted, we had our key forward out alike them, add on to that Ball, a dodgey Saddo and Stevie D and then Fossie carrying in an injury as well as Noggy, they were pathetic. We at least contested it and gave a real crack

This feeling of ANOTHER WOBBLE is 2nd best to the Swans getting there

[anne]

I think that given what Collingwood, Port and Adelaide hoped to achieve this year, that Sydney was definitely the second best team.

[Charlie]

It's all semantics, guys. We didn't win and that's what matters when you get up to the top few spots.

Next year, though, it's a whole new ballgame. Brisbane, Port and Adelaide are all old, and I don't think they'll win it next year, although I won't write Brisbane off. Collingwood could well go backwards, and would have to be mentally scarred. Fremantle, St Kilda and Essendon are all good, but not ready yet.

Personally, I reckon we're a huge chance.

[liz]

Originally posted by Charlie
It's all semantics, guys. We didn't win and that's what matters when you get up to the top few spots.

Next year, though, it's a whole new ballgame. Brisbane, Port and Adelaide are all old, and I don't think they'll win it next year, although I won't write Brisbane off. Collingwood could well go backwards, and would have to be mentally scarred. Fremantle, St Kilda and Essendon are all good, but not ready yet.

Personally, I reckon we're a huge chance.

Long way to go yet and a lot to discover about the team. There have been many teams over the years who have done what we did this year - ie come from nowhere to have a great season - and then sunk down into oblivion for years.

The thing that makes me most optimistic is that our two players most likely to be matchwinners - Hall and Goodes - really stepped up (if that were possible) during the finals series. O'Loughlin is another who I have confidence would thrive on the big stage, while Williams must be so hungry by now that if his body allows, he won't let us down.

Doyle is probably our most important player going into next season. Not writing off Ball, but in terms of the future, Doyle is it. Roos needs to find a way to play Goodes in a ruck type role in which he obviously flourishes, while providing some protection against the kind of battering a ruckman's body takes in a game. It just doesn't make sense to have your most potent weapon taking that kind of physical punishment for the whole season.

The thing that makes me less confident is that we relied a lot on the efficiency of our forward line. We had fewer inside 50s than any other team during this season. The upside to this, of course, is that if we can find a way to get first hands on ball more often in the centre, we have the structure to really score heavily. But we do need to find another couple of genuine ball winners in the centre.

Don't write off Brisbane. Scarily they are not old. The only hope for the rest of us is that if you take Voss and Lynch out of that team, the rest might not look quite as awesome. Voss is still only 28 but you have to wonder how long his body will hold up, with the crash and bash style of play he has subjected his body to. Mind you, he is such a champion that he can probably will his body on to play at that level for another few years yet. But, as I posted elsewhere, Brown, Black and Power are still babes in football terms, while Aker, the Scotts, Leppitsch and Lappin are in their prime agewise. They'll still be the team to beat next year.

[Reggi]

I would wait until after the trade and draft period before making predictions.

Trades this year may be enough to raise the quality of lists.

Collingwood have played every card in the deck - cannot see how they can improve - will probably just slide into the 8 next year.

Doyle is so important - hopefully he can get fit - need at least two genuine rucks - and free up Goodes around the ground.

Whomever wins will need to beat Brisbane - we need to strengthen our midfield either through our current list or another player.

Really the best news was that Sydney only have 7 players undergoing surgery and all should start pre-season. Wouldn't have happened for quite a long time.

[liz]

Originally posted by Reggi
Collingwood have played every card in the deck - cannot see how they can improve - will probably just slide into the 8 next year.

Don't underestimate Collingwood. After all, they will be recruiting Brown, Stevens and Solomon in the off-season. This will be achieved by delisting players like Richardson and Molloy (to free up salary cap space). Kinnear and Scotland will be traded to the Dogs for Brown. Maybe O'Bree and McGough to Port for Stevens. Not sure how they'll get Solomon, but maybe Sheedy will accept Neon Leon and a 5th round pick.

[Charlie]

LOL Lizz... you've got to wonder how C'wood fans can be so confident that they'll get all of those players, whilst at the same time continually slagging off Carlton for breaching the cap.

[Scottee]

It's interesting to look at our list and the uncontracted players/retirements for this year. It appears we may only have about four or five new faces at the club unless there is a cull of some of the rookies and younger senior listed players.

Our chances next year are going to be somewhat dictated by the level of improvement of existing players. You could expect that Doyle?, Kenelly,LRT,MJ, the Fixter, Saddington, O'Louglin, Schneider,ROK?, Stevens, Powell, Seymour, Davis and Fosdike could all have improved years. This will balanced by injuries of course, but we also have the potential of Thewliss, McVeigh, Malceski, Hunt and Dempster stepping up to the big time as well.

It's hard to say that the loss of Cresswell will not be compensated for by improvement in all the above players.It looks like an improved year next year might be on the cards, Trade/draft or not.

[Reggi]

Lizz Collingwood are already imploding.

Eddie McGuire on the radio says that C/Wood have N Stevens sown up (if they can actually get the trade arranged.

But they do not have the quality - nor do they have a decent ruckman. If you look at their list they have no more quality to bring in - or who look to improve.

The mental scars will really be deep.

They won't have that same run with injuries again - only two injured players in the finals.

[Plugger46]

We didn't finish Second, Collingwood did. They deserved to play in the GF simple as that. We had a good year sure, but we're not doing Collingwood justice by saying that we were better than them. They beat us in Sydney late in the year, managed to beat Brisbane in the first final then beat Port to get to the GF.

They were outclassed yesterday, by a simply awesome team. But their performances over the year were just as good as ours.

Saying that, it was great to see them get blitzed yesterday. The Colliwobbles are back.

[neored]

Originally posted by Reggi
Lizz Collingwood are already imploding.

Eddie McGuire on the radio says that C/Wood have N Stevens sown up (if they can actually get the trade arranged.

These trades get arranged, Nick Stevens wants to go to Collingwood and Collingwood want him, everything else will be resolved. Nathan Brown might also be heading to the Collscum

[quoteBut they do not have the quality - nor do they have a decent ruckman. If you look at their list they have no more quality to bring in - or who look to improve.[/quote]

How can you possibly say that? They've mave 2 grand finals in a row and lost both to a team that will be rated as one of the best ever. I dont think that they're that far away. They dont have many star players, but they're well coached, well organised and play to their strengths. You're also forgetting that the team is still very young, Cole, Fraser, Tarrant, Didak, Cloke will continue to improve.

The mental scars will really be deep.

They won't have that same run with injuries again - only two injured players in the finals.

Very speculative here, who knows whats going through their minds. You'd think that losing the 1996 and 1999 preliminary finals would of left Essendon mentally scarred, but it only strengthened the team in the long run.

They were extremely lucky with injuries, but conversely Rocca's suspension hurt them.

In the end I hope they continue to make Grand Finals.... and lose them. Wobble , wobble

[Reggi]

S&Don already had a number of Premiership players.

Collingwood has none and has wone one of 12 attempts.

Witness that Malthouse has already blamed his players.

Leopard never changes its spots

[liz]

Originally posted by neored
These trades get arranged, Nick Stevens wants to go to Collingwood and Collingwood want him, everything else will be resolved. Nathan Brown might also be heading to the Collscum

Maybe, but Collingwood are going to have to give up something to get either - or both - of these players. Both Port and the Dogs will be looking for at least a first round draft pick (or an experienced player of similar value), probably with something else thrown in as well. Collingwood can't rely on the pre-season draft to snare either of these players - if they nominate they will be long gone before Collingwood gets anywhere close.

And as my ever so slightly facetious post earlier pointed out, what are they going to trade? For all their success over the past two seasons, it is widely recognised that this is based on excellent coaching and team play - not dissimilar to the Swans of this year. They can ill afford to lose any of their stars because they don't have that many - no point in robbing Peter to pay Paul.

They're not going to trade Buckley, Burns, Tarrant, Fraser or Rocca. Wakelin would have little currency with either Port or the Dogs, and I can't see them wanting to lose Presti or Clement either - rocks in their defence. Licuria would have value - but again he's a real Pies favourite.

Amongst their kids, the only one I can really see forming the basis of a trade (especially for Stevens) is Didak. Some of the rest are duds (eg Davis), some have not lived up to billing this year (eg McGough, Lonie), some are honest goers and valuable members of the team but have no star quality (eg Johnson, Cloke), while the likes of Cole, Shaw, Richards, Walker still have to prove they're good enough.

Scotland, Betharus and/or Lockyer might be options, but again they're not names the Dogs or Port will be knocking down the door to get.

I can see they might be able to snare one of these two, probably Stevens, but I'd be surprised if they have enough to trade (that they're willing to give up) to get both.

[neored]

Originally posted by lizz
Maybe, but Collingwood are going to have to give up something to get either - or both - of these players. Both Port and the Dogs will be looking for at least a first round draft pick (or an experienced player of similar value), probably with something else thrown in as well. Collingwood can't rely on the pre-season draft to snare either of these players - if they nominate they will be long gone before Collingwood gets anywhere close.

Hypothetically you might be correct Lizz, but in reality when a player makes it quite obvious that he wants to play at one club he'll end up there. Otherwise his management will make it dificult for another side to come to contractual terms with him. Port will probably have to accept a first round draft pick, whichever player they get they'll still end up losing out. In the end Collingwood have the upper hand, if Port dont compromise then they'll end up losing him without getting anything.

With the Brown situation Cloke's name seems to be bandied around as a possible swap. Funnily enough Essendon are also mentioned in a possibel three way trade with Richmond receiving Solomon, but I doubt this is true.

And as my ever so slightly facetious post earlier pointed out, what are they going to trade? For all their success over the past two seasons, it is widely recognised that this is based on excellent coaching and team play - not dissimilar to the Swans of this year. They can ill afford to lose any of their stars because they don't have that many - no point in robbing Peter to pay Paul.

They're not going to trade Buckley, Burns, Tarrant, Fraser or Rocca. Wakelin would have little currency with either Port or the Dogs, and I can't see them wanting to lose Presti or Clement either - rocks in their defence. Licuria would have value - but again he's a real Pies favourite.

Amongst their kids, the only one I can really see forming the basis of a trade (especially for Stevens) is Didak. Some of the rest are duds (eg Davis), some have not lived up to billing this year (eg McGough, Lonie), some are honest goers and valuable members of the team but have no star quality (eg Johnson, Cloke), while the likes of Cole, Shaw, Richards, Walker still have to prove they're good enough.

Scotland, Betharus and/or Lockyer might be options, but again they're not names the Dogs or Port will be knocking down the door to get.

I can see they might be able to snare one of these two, probably Stevens, but I'd be surprised if they have enough to trade (that they're willing to give up) to get both.

We shall see, I quite enjoy the trading period. My opinion is based more on history, teams usually end up snaring who they want through various means. Add McEgo to the equation and Collingwood are pretty well placed.