Swans still keen on Hall

[barry]

Originally posted by sharpie
Its amazing how nearly everyone here has made an about face regarding Ray Hall. During the trade period, many people were saying that there was no way we should trade for Ray Hall, that he was useless, a hack. All of a sudden he is the saviour and everyone wants a piece of him, and it sounds like you'd all be devastated if we didnt get him. What has changed in those few weeks? Have some of you been having secret training sessions with him?

Or maybe you want him to open up a juice bar in Sydney with you!

I have been a Ray Fan for ages, and I hope the swans under Ireland have focused on trying to recruit back any NSW lads as for once we can let homesickness work for us. And it appears to be happening.

But in fairness to others, our main requirement in and draft/trade was a midfielder, so that means many overlooked Hall as a lower priority. Since no midfielder materialised, and Hall is possibly coming to us for nothing, its time to get excited!

[robbieando]

Originally posted by barry
I have been a Ray Fan for ages, and I hope the swans under Ireland have focused on trying to recruit back any NSW lads as for once we can let homesickness work for us. And it appears to be happening.

Sure its good that we start getting our own back in regards to homesick players, but what is the point of going after everyone who has come from NSW if these players are not up to standard, nor can really improve our list. He just hasn't impressed me in his time at Richmond and for the life of me, many on here just like the idea he is a local kid, not that he can play or anything.

First and foremost we must go after the players who can improve this team, REGARDLESS OF WHAT STATE THEY ARE FROM. I'm getting sick of the less pick him up because his a NSW boy movement, that many are pushing. Sure if he is local and can play (such as Nick Davis) fine, by all means go after them. Sure if you want to take a punt on a NSW kid with a late draft pick or a spot on the Rookie List, I haven't got a problem. But lets stick to getting quality players into the club, not just the first local boy delisted that comes our way, unless they are of such quailty that they improve our (ie Craig Bolton)

But in fairness to others, our main requirement in and draft/trade was a midfielder, so that means many overlooked Hall as a lower priority. Since no midfielder materialised, and Hall is possibly coming to us for nothing, its time to get excited!

But why should I be excited about Ray Hall???? What has he done to be excited about???? What does he offer to get excited about???? Most people see him as a backup ruckman who can play forward, yet I see here that you and a few others see him as the answer to our tall defender problem. Excuse while I throw up, but why would he be the answer when he didn't even play the position at Richmond in a side that could of done with a Tall defender late in the season. He couldn't even make the ruck spot his own, up against a player the Swans got rid of a few years back. Sure he might be a handy pick up, but that alone isn't a reason to get excitied.

[Gunn]

[QUOTE
But in fairness to others, our main requirement in and draft/trade was a midfielder, so that means many overlooked Hall as a lower priority. Since no midfielder materialised, and Hall is possibly coming to us for nothing, its time to get excited! [/B][/QUOTE]

Hardly "for nothing". We offered Richmond our first pick and third pick for Hall plus pick twenty. This means we really offered our third pick and offered to move 7 places down the list for our first pick. They rejected this.

To get him now we have to use our first pick. We don't get pick 20 and have to wait for the second round for our next pick.

I can't say I have noticed Hall play. I saw the Richmond v Swans game in Melb. I don't know if he played but I didn't notice him. I have watched a few Richmond games on the TV but again if he played he didn't stand out.

I wonder what the fuss is about him. Richmond clearly only value him as a depth type player who they are willing to trade. I would not like to see us lose a 'potentially' good young player in the draft for a hack who hasn't been able to make the grade in a less talented team like Richmond.

Why do people think he will turn it all aound in Sydney? History shows it rarely happens with run of the mill players.

[ugg]

I think you have confused the different types of draft. We would pick him up in the PSD.

[Ryan Bomford]

Can't say I agree Robbie, Gunns.

As you rightly point out, a pick at Number 13 only gives you a chance at a potential senior player, not a proven senior player who has played in the top 22 for a number of seasons. Remember C Bolton, at a similar age, was in a similar position, albeit in a stronger side.

If our pick was in the single digits, or if we were pitching for an older player I might agree with you. Otherwise getting a "gauranteed" senior player through the draft at pick 13 is a lottery, especially if there is a seasoned player who seems to meet our immediate requirements already available.

It has been said numerous times on this site that talls seem to have a longer development cycle and that may apply to Hall. IMHO the lack of talls last year down the stretch through injury, really hurt our chances of getting to the big game. The addition of a utility tall can only improve our chances in the future.

[mocaholic]

Given my whole family are rabid Tiges and none of them are at all concerned, shouldn't it worry us that he's ....you know..... a dud? Shouldn't this be part of the consideration? Do we need another one? Just because a fella wants to come to Syd - admittedly, rare in itself - doesn't mean we need to take him.

There's a difference between a bloke who can't get a game for Bris - emerg for GF's (Bolton comma C fullstop) and a hugely skilled GF player (Davis comma N fullstop) to a bloke who's not in Richmond's best 22.

Understand that we have deficiences 'down back' (thanks David Parkin) in terms of height, but is Ray Hall really the answer?

Agree with RobbieAndo.

[Red]

Originally posted by lizz
It's possibly a reference to a promise they made to Tony McGuiness in the 1996(?) pre-season draft before the AFL ruled they didn't have sufficient room in their salary cap to take him.

They could also be referring to Terry Wallace!

I'm not <i>overly</i> excited about Ray Hall. What I see him as is experienced relief for Goodes during the games when both Ball & Doyle are injured -- and recent history has shown that this will happen at some point during the season. JM is a couple of years away from this role IMO.

And don't forget that Ray is still young, and younger still in ruckman years. And Frawley is not known for his ability to develop players.

Still, I'm amazed they offered pics 1 & 3 for him! I thought we were done with all that sort of thing.

[CureTheSane]

From one of the articles...

"Later yesterday, Miller expanded upon his charge against the Swans, who, he said, had attempted to ambush Richmond during the trade period, a claim not dissimilar to one levelled at the Tigers by Essendon and Kevin Sheedy over Solomon."

Yes, Everyone should all be completely up front, honest and forthright during the trade period. (Sarcasm mode turned off...)

Jeez, the way Miller talks, you'd think they were all in school under extreme 'fair play' rules.
Welcome to the real world Richmond.

Like someone said, if Hall REALLY wants to come to Sydney, he will stand out of the EOSeason draft and nominate for the Pre Season Draft.

Our chances are a lot better there, and it demonstrates a strong desire by him to want to play for the Swans.
That is starting to count for more and more with Rocca and Davis etc and their hearts not being at the clubs they are at.

[barry]

Why I like Raymond:

1) He's young.
2) He's a tall defender, that can play forward or ruck.
3) He's done ok with the handicap of Frawley as coach
4) He's done ok with the handicap of Richmond as his team
5) He's done ok up against Richo, Ottens, Stafford, etc contending for tall spots.
6) He's from NSW - he wont be going anywhere after here.
7) He will cost next to nothing.

If we get him he will fall into the Saddington, Bolton, James group of players vying for the 2nd key defender role. He may not be better than some of those now, but his best years are ahead of him.

[DST]

Originally posted by barry
Why I like Raymond:

1) He's young.
2) He's a tall defender, that can play forward or ruck.
3) He's done ok with the handicap of Frawley as coach
4) He's done ok with the handicap of Richmond as his team
5) He's done ok up against Richo, Ottens, Stafford, etc contending for tall spots.
6) He's from NSW - he wont be going anywhere after here.
7) He will cost next to nothing.

If we get him he will fall into the Saddington, Bolton, James group of players vying for the 2nd key defender role. He may not be better than some of those now, but his best years are ahead of him.

Could not agree more with you Barry, he will be a very handy addition to the group of players competing for that 2nd & 3rd tall defender spots next year with the flexibility to play in the ruck as well.

I sometimes think people need to sit back and have a look at what factors maybe hindering a players progress at a certain club. There is no doubt Ray can play in fact a couple of years ago Richmond supporters were raving about him after their finals campaign, opportunities and the team structure at the tigers meant he may not have been given a fair go since then.

Ray has the ability now it is time for him to deliver and it won't be for the tigers but us.

DST

[Dave]

If Roos and co. see him as a worthwile aquisition then so be it.

I have faith in their judgement.

Sydney could be just the right enviroment for Hall to thrive.

[DST]

Originally posted by mocaholic
Given my whole family are rabid Tiges and none of them are at all concerned, shouldn't it worry us that he's ....you know..... a dud? Shouldn't this be part of the consideration? Do we need another one? Just because a fella wants to come to Syd - admittedly, rare in itself - doesn't mean we need to take him.

There's a difference between a bloke who can't get a game for Bris - emerg for GF's (Bolton comma C fullstop) and a hugely skilled GF player (Davis comma N fullstop) to a bloke who's not in Richmond's best 22.

Understand that we have deficiences 'down back' (thanks David Parkin) in terms of height, but is Ray Hall really the answer?

Agree with RobbieAndo.

I will tell you a story mocaholic, there was once a bloke called Adam Goodes and a whole bunch of rabid swans supporters on a messageboard were either non plussed about keeping him or outright wanted him to be traded becuase in their eyes he had not lived up to the potential he had shown.

This bloke was tall, 21 and played a bit in the ruck do I need to go on? Translate that to your Richmond friends and you will know where they are coming from.

While I am not equating Hall to Goodes in relation to potential, all players that make it onto an AFL list these days are their because they possess the ability to play at the higherst level. What sorts out the players from the non players is their desire to make the sacrifices to take that next step.

As for the question whether he is our saviour down back the answer is a no at this stage. But will Hall add to our problems down back, definitely not as he will give us cover both in the ruck and as a tall defender. He will also be given the chance to take the KP backman post if he is good enough.

DST

[robbieando]

Originally posted by barry
Why I like Raymond:

2) He's a tall defender, that can play forward or ruck.

Again, Ray Hall has never been a key position defender - just a backup ruckman, cum part time forward and you think he is the answer down back. If Richmond who don't have the best defence going around never played him there, doesn't that tell you something.

I believe he has value as a backup ruckman, because it allows LRT to become more of a key defender than backup ruckman which he was late in the season when Ball went down with injury.

I don't believe the Ray Hall is better than what we already have in ruck and up forward and thinking we can turn him into a key position defender isn't the reason we should be going after him.

I haven't got a problem with us risking a Pre Season Draft pick on him and it could turn out to be a good pick up. But at this stage he wouldn't even be good enough to brake into our Best 22, only time will tell

[footyhead]

Originally posted by mocaholic
[

Understand that we have deficiences 'down back' (thanks David Parkin) in terms of height, but is Ray Hall really the answer?

[/B]

Why do you thank David Parkin for our lack of Tall defenders ??

[footyhead]

Originally posted by Red


Still, I'm amazed they offered pics 1 & 3 for him! I thought we were done with all that sort of thing.

Yeah, old habits die hard; they havn't done anything really stupid .. yet this new football dept administration, but I can always scense there proclivity to do so.
Some clubs are just like that. St.kilda have their ridiculous tendanceies (lack of discipline) Carlton (cheating), Richmond (trying to throw teams together rather than solidly building a team, and then scratching their heads when the wheels fall off). Well the Swans have some very bad habits, and we really need to clean out the source of it. I think you will find it somewhere near the top, another clue is look in the administrative dept as oppossed to the football dept.
Admin is where all the power hungry blind old men are, You know the ones that David Williamson wrote about in his famous play: "the club". Well these guys are either a force of good or bad. In successful clubs they use their nafarious ego driven desires to good effect. At the Swans, the jury is still out.