Saddington bids to match Neitz

[penga]

Originally posted by Plugger46
I'm interested in why you don't think James is ready for Neitz, chammond?

same here

[stellation]

Originally posted by Plugger46
The way James has been playing, I reckon he is ready to have first crack at Neitz. Jamesy is both taller and stronger than Bolton.

I agree with this. James has been playing very well and I think he has earnt the chance to have first go at Neitz.

[chammond]

I've never made any secret of the fact that I am an admirer of David Neitz . . . I think he's pretty close to the complete footballer.

As a forward, in addition to his football skills, he's fast and hard, and ruthless. He attacks the ball like Leigh Matthews used to, and he wouldn't think twice about taking an opponent out if the opportunity presented.

Quality fullbacks like Dunkley or Schauble think they have done well if they can keep Neitz to two or three goals and reduce his overall impact on the game. But that usually happens only after they've played a few games on him, and mostly only when they get support from other defenders.

No matter how we might wish it otherwise, Heath James is a complete novice . . . not a quality fullback. Four games as a fulltime defender does not make him ready to take on the AFL's best. He's performed well so far, but Roos has been careful to move him whenever he has looked like being overwhelmed. You don't learn to be a fullback overnight . . . . after rucking it is probably the hardest skill to acquire, and requires lengthy experience.

I'm not a member of the 'throw them in the deep end and see what happens' clique. For every one that comes up a winner, you get many who have their confidence shattered and go backwards.

James ain't ready for that.

And for the game as a whole, we need Neitz to be shut down. He is still the Demon's main inspiration. If he gets on top, we will really be up against it.

[stellation]

I think James should have a chance on Neitz even if C.Bolton is fit. If he is getting destroyed, then you can try C.Bolton on Neitz. The only reason we would normally play C.Bolton on Neitz would be because we don't have a genuine big defender ready to take him, we won't know if James is ready for such a challenge.

We wouldn't have thought that C.Bolton was ready to try playing on much bigger opponents until he proved himself (was Richo the first?).

He is only 4 games into regular play as a backman, but remember whilst he is not a young kid and has the best body (if it holds up) of the defenders available for us on Saturday to go against Neitz.

[liz]

Understand where you're coming from Cliff, but realistically we have no-one who can cope with Neitz on their own, particularly if the ball is coming to him quickly. And that no-one includes a Schauble who hasn't played any footy for well over a month.

Roos tactics that last couple of times we have played the Dees seems to have been to almost zone off against him, with his direct opponent playing a few metres in front and other defenders looking to come in as the second and third man in the contest.

The risk with that, of course, is that it leaves other Dees forwards with more room and less attention but fortunately none has been good enough to take advantage. And with Robertson out and Green moved into the midfield, they don't have another individual that looms as a huge danger.

Ironically Saddo has done OK on him in the past, in that 'floating in front' role. James seems as well equipped as any others to take the first go, and providing he gets enough support from his fellow defenders and our midfield is at least holding its own, I see no reason why he should be disgraced.

Another advantage of James is that if he is able to settle into the role, as the game wears on he may have the confidence to run off Neitz a bit, which would give Neitz something else to think about.

[Bleed Red Blood]

Originally posted by stellation
He is only 4 games into regular play as a backman, but remember whilst he is not a young kid and has the best body (if it holds up) of the defenders available for us on Saturday to go against Neitz.

I say we should have Rogers for this game, he hasnt played a senior match but has played wizard cup for a couple of years with Melbourne.

If he isn't included we need LRT to at least take one of the tall Dees.

[chammond]

Originally posted by lizz
Roos tactics that last couple of times we have played the Dees seems to have been to almost zone off against him, with his direct opponent playing a few metres in front and other defenders looking to come in as the second and third man in the contest.

The risk with that, of course, is that it leaves other Dees forwards with more room and less attention but fortunately none has been good enough to take advantage. And with Robertson out and Green moved into the midfield, they don't have another individual that looms as a huge danger.

Neitz does tend to like to bounce out of the blocks and get on top straight away . . . but he can be reined in with a bit of perseverance. I'd be scared that James would get blown away early and just be a passenger from then on.

As you say, based on past experience, Roos seems to like to play a spare man in front of Neitz (or get another defender to zone off). If I was calling the shots, I'd start Bolton on him and play Saddington as the spare man, at least for the first quarter. Holland is far less mobile than Neitz, and less explosive . . . I think he'd be ideal for James at this stage.

[liz]

Originally posted by chammond
Neitz does tend to like to bounce out of the blocks and get on top straight away . . . but he can be reined in with a bit of perseverance. I'd be scared that James would get blown away early and just be a passenger from then on.

Agree with the first part, and it will be important that our midfield doesn't decide to nap for the first 15 minutes, ala the Roos match.

However, one of the things that has impressed me most about James this year is that he hasn't let his head hang at any stage. He's been beaten by his opponent early in most of the matches - particularly against Geelong - but has kept at the job, worked out his opponent and then started to really attack as his confidence has grown.

Playing him on Neitz might be a gamble but I doubt it will be the undoing of James even if it backfires.

[NMWBloods]

I haven't really noticed how quick James is yet. Neitz's game plan is a little like Barry Hall's - his preferred MO is not to stay back and use his strength to outmark the opposition (not that they both can't do that), but rather to lead hard and fast, using his strength to maintain his line and avoid being pushed off the ball.

I think it's important to have a player that can go with him on the lead, plus also we need players to block up his leading area. This would tend to suggest perhaps a 5-man forward line and a defensive floater.

I'd like to see LRT on Holland, for the height match.

[chammond]

Originally posted by lizz

Playing him on Neitz might be a gamble but I doubt it will be the undoing of James even if it backfires.

Yeah, maybe it's just my usual pre-match pessimism . . . hopefully he'll make me eat my words.

Anyhow, my memories of past Melb games is that they're often not decided by the big name players. I can remember us being killed by the McDonalds . . . and John Stevens taking 19 marks at the MCG . . . and a close game at the SCG being won by . . . Troy Cook!!

Maybe that's a good omen for James rather than Neitz?

[dendol]

I think Bolton should get first crack at Neitz. James would be better served starting out on Holland.

Who do we play on Davey? I see his speed and evasiveness as a big threat even if we manage to stop Neitz, Holland and White (if he drifts forward) from marking. Do we stick Crouch on him? If so, does this impact on our midfield, because I would prefer to see Crouch in the middle, where his defensive play as well as running capacity will be to our advantage.

Maybe we?ll see a battle of the rookies with Bevan vs Davey!

[NMWBloods]

I'd like to see Crouch on Davey. Not sure of Bevan's defensive capabilities yet.

[stellation]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I'd like to see Crouch on Davey. Not sure of Bevan's defensive capabilities yet.

tend to agree with you. rookie vs. rookie would be kind of cool, but it is much easier to run around as a rookie forward than it is as a rookie back.

[Barry Schneider]

Originally posted by lizz
Understand where you're coming from Cliff, but realistically we have no-one who can cope with Neitz on their own, particularly if the ball is coming to him quickly. And that no-one includes a Schauble who hasn't played any footy for well over a month.

Roos tactics that last couple of times we have played the Dees seems to have been to almost zone off against him, with his direct opponent playing a few metres in front and other defenders looking to come in as the second and third man in the contest.

The risk with that, of course, is that it leaves other Dees forwards with more room and less attention but fortunately none has been good enough to take advantage. And with Robertson out and Green moved into the midfield, they don't have another individual that looms as a huge danger.

Ironically Saddo has done OK on him in the past, in that 'floating in front' role. James seems as well equipped as any others to take the first go, and providing he gets enough support from his fellow defenders and our midfield is at least holding its own, I see no reason why he should be disgraced.

Another advantage of James is that if he is able to settle into the role, as the game wears on he may have the confidence to run off Neitz a bit, which would give Neitz something else to think about.

Lizz I always enjoy reading your posts.Probably because I agree with most of the things you say.
One player marking Neitz is not enough.If we can slow down the delivery into the Dees forward line then some midfielders can run down and take his running lines otherwise as you mentioned some of our defenders will have to zone off their opponents which can be dangerous.

Neitz biggest attribute is his fast leading.I don't know if James has the pace.I think Bolton is worth a try.He held Richardson( in both meanings of the word) last year.In a pack mark Leo and the others can come over the top and spoil so I don't think his lack of height will be too disadvantageous.
The narrowness of the pockets help us clog up the backline.
Having said that our midfield must get on top in the clearances and get plenty of the ball as they did against the Kangas.

[boroboy]

I can't think of any game where Bolton has been towelled by a Key Forward, especially the bigger guys like Brown - each time he's been asked to do the job he's done well, sometimes brilliantly. Give him the job - but as Lizz points out, Neitz will have a couple to contend with anyway - I can't see Roos taking any chances. Shut him out and we're 50% of the way to winning....