Goodes' ruckman days 'over'

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by dendol
what if Saddo draws CHB???

And pencil Jason Ball in as a crumber.

The point I was making is that there is a terrible inevitability in our game at present. The idea of trading this lot for a new lot is ludicrous but some shakeup is necessary.

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by robbieando
One things for sure Goodes isn't going to have the same impact for us if he is used mainly as a key position forward. When used in this role in the past he stuggled and indeed played his worst football in this position, he is a poor set shot at goal and as a forward he can't run off his man to the same effect as when he is the ruck. In the two full seasons that he has played in the ruck, he won a Brownlow, All Australian selection as a ruckman and won a Rising Star award.

I think he was unlucky to get injuried on Saturday, it could of happened at any stage of last season when he was doing the same bloody thing, and was the best player in the comp or it could of happened if he was playing at CHF. No one complained last season when he was playing in the ruck and was ripping up the competition, yet the second he gets injuried playing ruck we get the "oh we can't risk him here anymore, it was a useless idea in the first place. Best move him to a key position"

If he indeed is not going to be used as a true ruckman anymore, which would in my eyes be a mistake then he needs to be near the ball, either as a winger who can roam around the ground being the all important link man, or as a ruck-rover who can ruck at throw in's and be a dangerous prospect in the centre square at bounces, because if anything Goodes will never make it as a true Centre Half Forward, nor would the Swans game plan gain anything from him playing there. The talk of him becoming a Centre Half Back is just talk because in my eyes he isn't accountable enough to play the position, nor if he was to improve that area of his game, would he have the same impact as he would playing though the middle.

Adam Goodes is a very talented player who the Swans must be careful with because he needs to play a certain way to be of true value to us and if we keep trying him in position after position, he'll never become the player he should, if left alone in the middle of the park, as either a Ruckman, Ruck-rover or Winger.

Well said.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by BAM_BAM
In all seriousness I agree with Charlie, he needs to be played in the midfield, working off the tap from our genuine Ruckmen and pumping the ball forward as quickly as possible. Or receiving it from a tap on at the edge of the square running 2m and loading up for a shot on goal (I realise he's not necessarily known lately for his great kicking at goal, but he can do it. Just needs to believe)

Agree Bam Bam. Whilst I understand that damage to Goodes' body is a far greater risk as a ruckman than in other positions, I still see no evidence as to why he cannot carry out the role he did last year but in the position of ruck rover or centreman.

Goodesey is a player with exquisite skills but a suspect (and erratic) level of enthusiasm. When he has no option but to laze around in the forward line, it is common knowledge that he gets slovenly and starts being haphazard in his approach to/disposal of the ball.

He could theoretically still carry out some of the field ruckword as a ruck rover I guess, yet save himself from crashing into 6'8" dinosaurs in the ruck.

We may as well give us if we try and turn Goodsey into a close-checking key-position player. It simply isn't how he plays his best footy.

When we already have ample avenues to go up forward,having him up there is not only wasting one of the players responsible for centre clearances and quickfire disposal into the forward line, but reducing the effectiveness of the forward line as whole.

In his absense I think they should trial Craig Bolton on the ball. We definitely lack drive out of the centre at times, yet minutes later look brilliant.

All we need is one good effort to get things clicking. Hopefully it will be next Sunday against the Hawks.

JF

[Red]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
In his absense I think they should trial Craig Bolton on the ball. We definitely lack drive out of the centre at times, yet minutes later look brilliant.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. With his composure, fitness & fine disposal skills I reckon he could be excellent there -- the Lions had him pencilled for a possible midfield role after all.

Unfortunately he is really needed more in defence ATM. We just don't have anyone to replace him there with.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by Red
I was thinking exactly the same thing. With his composure, fitness & fine disposal skills I reckon he could be excellent there -- the Lions had him pencilled for a possible midfield role after all.

Unfortunately he is really needed more in defence ATM. We just don't have anyone to replace him there with.

ARGH!! The ultimate Catch 22, hey. If we move him to the midfield, we are short on men in the back line. If we keep him there we lack numbers in the centre square.

I'm just scared that he is getting hammered confidence-wise as a defender at the moment. As shown by the crucial kick-out error in the last quarter, he is another whose 2004 isn't a patch on his 2003.

JF

[NMWBloods]

I don't think C Bolton has the skills to be a true midfielder.

As for Goodes in the ruck and the knee injury, why don't the ruckmen wear some padding on knee their non-jumping leg. Wouldn't be heavy or a nuisancem, but should provide protection in the knee collisions.

[liz]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I don't think C Bolton has the skills to be a true midfielder.

He has beautiful kick on him so he might be effective as a wingman (not that he wouldn't make a fine defender so long as he's not playing on 6ft 5 100kg forwards).

Despite Hird being named the Bombers' best in the match we played them, I thought Bolton did a reasonable job minding him. Hird found a fair amount of the ball and he was important to them at times but I didn't think he (Hird) was as devastating as he had been in the previous two games.

Some of the match ups in the Eagles game really didn't work for us. Crouch on Judd was one of them, and Barry on Matera was another. Looking at the physical statistics it is easy to see that these were quite high risk matches for us. I realise Roos was probably keen to keep Crouch in the midfield, but he is the one player who might have been able to prevent Matera crumbing as well as he did in their forward line, and Bolton might have stood more of a chance of negating Judd. Barry could have then played on whichever taller player was assigned to Bolton.

[Nico]

Robbie I agree with your comments and Charlie's. Goodes has only one position, on the bloody ball.

I can't fathom how, with our appalling clearance record from Centre Bounces how Goodes has not been used as purely a ruck rover. His quick eye and reflexes and strength are nothing but an asset in this situation. Just look at how good James Hird is at centre bounces. Goodes could and should be equally as good.

They go mad on midfield rotations because that is "the" stereotypical coaching flavour at the moment. If you have a good centre bounce combo then you go with it every time not rotate adnausium.

Essendon have - Hird,Solomon and a Johnson at almost every centre bounce because it bloody works.

On the subject of PCL injuries to ruckmen, they had a big list of players on display on On the Couch. Healy said the AFL was told of this problem 2 years ago. Now it is all very well saying we all cheered when Goodes won a Brownlow on the ball and rucking, but, the club must have known of the eminent danger to their star player but kept him at it. They debated it heavily on SEN last week, and when it was announced that Goodes was back on the ball I've gone oh oh, with luck our with injuries at the moment I don't like the look of this.

Dur Roosey. Bit late to be bemoaning the fact now. Should have been more proactive. Fancy "wasting" Goodes up against a man mountan he was never going to beat to a tap. What logic is there with a man of Goodes's size trying to win a "tap", when our midfield has been so bad. Better to have a midfield takeaway strategy. If you wanted a contest with the big man, Doyle should have played.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
Why do I have this terrible image of Leo at FF and Schneider as our ruckman?

This is the Auskick kids at halftime you're talking about right?!?!!

[Go Swannies]

I just watched the first quarter again. Very impressed with Jason Ball's ruck work. He just kept punching it well forward and invariably we came away with clean possession. It must have started to go wrong later on - why?

[dendol]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
I just watched the first quarter again. Very impressed with Jason Ball's ruck work. He just kept punching it well forward and invariably we came away with clean possession. It must have started to go wrong later on - why?

I noticed that the WCE midfielders picked up on Ball thumping the ball forward and they tended to line up defensive side at the stoppages. They didnt mind having to run backwards whilst feeding little handballs to each other until someone was freed up to kick or run it forward. It actually started to get quite annoying because our midfielders were trying hard to catch them but invariably the weagles' skill and speed allowed them to get away with it.

[penga]

Originally posted by lizz
Bolton might have stood more of a chance of negating Judd.

the best way to negate judd is to make him accountable and hurt him the other way; williams shouldve been on him

[Captain]

I can't believe that Crouch wasn't played on Matera.

Judd hurt us and Crouch was ineffective. This is no slant on Crouchy as it's pretty tough to stop Judd when he is in full flight.

I agree that Williams or Bolton should have been played on Judd. Then Crocuh could have played on Matera, who by the way was far too small and nippy for Leaping.

[Go Swannies]

After Kerr's "perfectly legal" assault on Kirk (Brodie, you were robbed and Willo wants to apologise) did I later see Heath James playing on Cousins when he went forward? I was at the pub but thought I saw Heath on the mark for Cousins?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Sounds like you think Roos actually uses RWO for tactical advice...

I doubt it, but maybe he should!

Because . . .

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Goodes has pretty much only ever played well in a ruck/midfield role. He needs to play in the ruck, but not at the centre bounce.

Which was exactly the position most sensible people took in the discussion of Goodes last week.

Given that he has shown no real aptityude for anything otherr than the ruck, not playing him there will shorten his career just as certainly as putting him into the centre bounces (which are the only stoppages where such an injury can occur)!