Phew!!!

[Barry Schneider]

I am obviously not Liz but I will comment anyway and deal with the consequences later.I have heard Roos say that the Swans have gone for youth in the last few years and he is now looking for some quality performers in the next trading period.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by Barry Schneider
I am obviously not Liz but I will comment anyway and deal with the consequences later..

Sorry mate all views are valid and enjoyed, just that lizz is a regular that has strong and factual views that I don;t always agree with but enjoy reading and did not mean to exclude anyone

[liz]

Since I have been "summoned" I suppose I ought to respond.

I reckon the list management at the end of the season will involve some very tough calls.

Some players have to be turned over, partly because the AFL rules say that you have to draft at least three players every year, and partly because if a club rests on its laurels with the squad it already has, that squad will usually start to look weaker the following year.

I hate nominating specific names to be traded because most / some of us get attached to the players we see run out each week. I also believe that pretty much every player currently in our senior team aged 22+ would be a regular player in almost every other AFL team (with the constant exception of Brisbane). The rest are at least showing enough to suggest they too could reach this level.

However, if you were to look at the types of player we are relatively well placed with it is the small to medium sized, tough, courageous, decent paced to quick, tenacious, slightly defensive midfielders / defenders with decent to good skills but maybe not that touch of class. Bolton, Fosdike, Kirk, Mathews, Crouch, Bevan, Fixter, Maxfield, possibly Buchanan all fit into this category. And while Williams and Schneider seem to have just a touch more magic about them than most of these others, they too can play similar roles. Arguably O'Keefe could also play a similar role, and Ablett looks set to develop into a similar one.

I don't want to see any of these players go, but if you were going to trade someone with a view to getting something reasonably valuable in return, it is probably from this group that it would make sense. Obviously Maxfield and Willo aren't going anywhere but I think there are a lot of teams who would place quite a high value on most of the rest of this group. One of the speedier ones would fit well into Collingwood or Essendon's midfield, while one of the tougher ones would add some grunt to teams like the Bulldogs, Richmond, Hawthorn, Freo, Adelaide.

What could we do with? Obviously a tall, ready to play, classy KPP would never go amiss, while a really strong bodied midfielder would also complement the group - someone like a Judd or Voss(though more with a reference to their physical strength and height than their all around class, nice though that might be). A smaller type player with greater clearance ability than we currently have might be attractive. And with Ball nearing the end of his career, Doyle still looking physically fragile and MJ and Erikson with a lot of developing to do, a ready made ruckman would also be a decent find.

Problem is, few of these players come available. In fact, as I have posted many times before, few really top quality players are ever traded unless they desperately want to come to the club. Even then, you are more likely to pick up another like we already have several off - ie smallish tall defenders or midfield soldiers. The true cream of a team almost always comes via the draft and patience, rather than trading.

So while I understand Roos' comments that they are already stocked up with kids, it is hard to see who there is available that would fit our needs, let alone necessarily want to come to Sydney. McVeigh (Snr) I'm lukewarm about, not because he's a bad player but because he fits into that group that we already have an abundance of.

That brings me to the other issue. Given that most of our senior players are of AFL standard, and most of our kids look promising but need more time, who goes? Warfe is almost a definite. Two months ago you'd probably have added Nicks to that list but has he done enough to demonstrate longer term value? Ball may choose to pull the pin but I desperately hope he has one more year left in him simply because we need him so badly.

Sunny, Ablett and Buchanan were probably three players playing for their careers at the start of the season. Dropping Sunny after he has had no chance this year to make progress might seem like a cruel decision. Monty has only played a few games but he probably showed enough in that period to really excite the club about what he can do. Ablett is being given lots of chances and it's hard to know how the club sees him.

James can't be deemed to be totally secure - though I admit I have a real soft spot for him after all he's been through and I desperately want to see him persisted with. It's not just emotion - I reckon he could yet become a really solid AFL defender. Powell, who knows? He clearly has talent but maybe he's not pressing his case hard enough or consistently enough. On the other hand, another year in the gym might bring a rapid improvement. It could well be that Powell and James are fighting for one place on next year's list.

Of the younger players, last year's draftees will all be safe. Thewlis was the one from the previous year's intake that I wondered about but his progress over the past month or so indicates that he is still very much in the mix. MJ I suspect will be persisted with unless another decent, more developed ruckman can be snared from somewhere.

And why promote the likes of McGlone and Rogers if the club didn't have faith in them? In fact, the number of rookies promoted this season and last only adds to the congestion at the bottom of the list.

So with a team possessing the core but in need of just a little injection of class and with little obvious deadwood to chop, as I commented above there will be some hard decisions to make in respect of both the developing players and the honest foot soldiers. I suspect some of us are going to face a bit of disappointment at seeing a favourite player traded or chopped.

Gee, that was long. Sorry. But when I get an open invitation to talk about my favourite subject...

[floppinab]

Phew!!!!!!!

[liz]

Sorry - just one more thought to add.

As I wrote in my POTW column last week, I have a feeling that next year will be the Swans best chance to really challenge for that elusive flag. A lot of things have to go right for us to happen but:

- Willo and Maxfield will have little left to give, one suspects, after next year. At best they will continue but with a slightly diminished output.

- If Ball doesn't retire at the end of this year, it is hard to see him going beyond next and at the moment it isn't obvious what the ruck solution will be for a year or two after that

- O'Loughlin adds that crucial bit of class up forward to the grunt and hardwork of Hall, O'Keefe et al and who knows how much longer his body will last

- Most of our foot soldiers will be in their prime agewise

- It might be our last chance before the Saints become an absolutely dominant team for a few years

The question that Roos and Ireland need to answer is whether that extra 5% or so that will be needed to really lift the team to perform at its best week in week out can come from the likes of Thewlis, Malceski, Dempster, Willoughby, Powell, James, LRT, Buchanan, McVeigh or whether they need to import it.

[robbieando]

Don't forget Lizz, as well as find room for at least 3 draft picks we must also find space in our 38 man list for Paul Bevan.

[Jeffers1984]

Originally posted by robbieando
Don't forget Lizz, as well as find room for at least 3 draft picks we must also find space in our 38 man list for Paul Bevan.

haha can't believe he's still on the rookie list. Ah well that will change at the the end of the year when he's in the seniors for good!

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Jeffers1984
haha can't believe he's still on the rookie list. Ah well that will change at the the end of the year when he's in the seniors for good!

Its means however that we must delist at least 4 players from our 38 man squad and so far the only sure-thing to go is Warfe.

[chammond]

So, if we are looking for one or two ready-mades in the trade, which teams are going to be interested in what we've got to offer?

Carlton will be desperate for a tough medium/small defender (or two), but seem to have more than they need in their tall young defensive group. Prendergast is a more than useful tall defender/back-up ruckman? Maybe for Bevan, or Mathews?

Richmond have a slow ageing defence, a slow midfield, and a lumbering forward line. They will be rebuilding from the bottom up and will be desperate to inject some pace. I suspect they would be very interested in Fosdike, or Bolton, or O'Keefe (I can feel this ice getting thinner and thinner ).

Hawthorn will also be having a clean-out - have good ball-winners, but lack pace, and can't kick goals for love nor money. Same trio as above . . . maybe for Thompson, or even . . . Mitchell??

The Bullies are still banking on youth to get them out of the hole, and I can't see them trading much. The Colliwobbles haven't got much to trade.

The Crows are more interesting . . . will probably have to trade for draft picks. Someone like Edwards or Stenglein might fit in very well at the Swans.

[liz]

Mitchell is the only of those players you've mentioned who remotes excites me, and even he I have doubts about giving too much for given that we don't really know whether he can back up what he did last year.

The others (some of them, anyway) are decent enough players but not sure they fill the gaps we have.

If we were looking for at lower profile trades, someone like Bode would be interesting to consider, especially had Ayres stayed at the Crows. For some reason Ayres didn't seem to rate him. Every time I've seen him play (admittedly not that often) he's been a ball magnet around the stoppages. I reckon he'd be worth a second round draft pick.

I don't see that tall, strong bodied defender or capable ruck running around. Plenty that would be nice to have but few that I think would be available unless we paid a small ransom.

The Doggies might be more active tradewise than you suggest. Below their top 4 or 5 they have a multitude of talented but still light players and I reckon a decent quality, midfield grunt would be very valuable to them while those kids bulk up. They also have a fair number of developing talls and maybe one of those could be a target for the Swans. They would be a couple of years more advanced than anyone we could draft next year but still not a "definite enough" to cost an arm and a leg. Harris is the pick of them but there's no way they'd let him go. Players like Wade Skipper, Ryan Hargrave, Will Minson or Kieran Mcguiness might be more accessible.

[chammond]

Yeah, but we have to be realistic about what we can achieve during trade week. Unless a player is out of contract, we'll have to trade a good player to get a good player. Even if a good player is out of contract, it'll cost high draft picks (probably plus a player) to get anybody exceptional.

If an out-of-contract champion drops into our lap, that's great . . . . but you can't plan for that. From what I've read in the papers, Roos is looking for two ready-made players: tall defender and on-baller. As far as I can see, to achieve a worthwhile trade we are going to need to sacrifice ready-made players.

To get the best deal, I think we should look for players that have around 50 or less games under their belt, but who aren't fitting in with their existing team's strategy. Or players who are in a team that has plenty of that type of player.

Beasy, Prendergast, Norman, Sporn, Thornton, Waite, Livingston are all very similar players at Carlton, and I reckon one of them could be prised loose at a bargain to bolster our defence. I suggest Prendergast because he can pinch-hit in the ruck, and play either end of the ground. Of course, if I've noticed him, then so will plenty of better judges than me. I guess we'll get a closer look this weekend.

Assuming McLeod and Ricciuto are untouchable, Adelaide still have Goodwin, Edwards, Gallagher, Bode, Shirley, Schuback, Stenglein, Skipworth, (and probably Reilly, Ladhams, Johncock and Burns) to play on the ball. Given that the Crows are pretty certain to trade, there might well be a bargain in there.

[Snowy]

Roos has repeatedly said that he is in the market for a quality midfielder and it sounds like he means a mature one, not one from the draft.

[Heavs]

Originally posted by chammond
Yeah, but we have to be realistic about what we can achieve during trade week. Unless a player is out of contract, we'll have to trade a good player to get a good player. Even if a good player is out of contract, it'll cost high draft picks (probably plus a player) to get anybody exceptional.

If an out-of-contract champion drops into our lap, that's great . . . . but you can't plan for that. From what I've read in the papers, Roos is looking for two ready-made players: tall defender and on-baller. As far as I can see, to achieve a worthwhile trade we are going to need to sacrifice ready-made players.

To get the best deal, I think we should look for players that have around 50 or less games under their belt, but who aren't fitting in with their existing team's strategy. Or players who are in a team that has plenty of that type of player.

Beasy, Prendergast, Norman, Sporn, Thornton, Waite, Livingston are all very similar players at Carlton, and I reckon one of them could be prised loose at a bargain to bolster our defence. I suggest Prendergast because he can pinch-hit in the ruck, and play either end of the ground. Of course, if I've noticed him, then so will plenty of better judges than me. I guess we'll get a closer look this weekend.

Assuming McLeod and Ricciuto are untouchable, Adelaide still have Goodwin, Edwards, Gallagher, Bode, Shirley, Schuback, Stenglein, Skipworth, (and probably Reilly, Ladhams, Johncock and Burns) to play on the ball. Given that the Crows are pretty certain to trade, there might well be a bargain in there.

We'll give you Livo or Beasy for Benny Fixter!!

[Bart]

Originally posted by Heavs
We'll give you Livo or Beasy for Benny Fixter!!

heh heh. To think we nearly traded Leo Barry plus draft picks to you for Hamill. Not that Hamill is a dud or anything, but what you actually got from St Kilda was Cranage and Livingstone (pick 4).

No to your offer BTW, if Benny can stay on the park he will become a gun.

[Barry Schneider]

Off the topic but could someone tell me who we got for Scott Stevens.Thanks.