Pathetic

[penga]

i like your analysis snajik, shows a good representation of kirk's current form

i do partly agree with JR, in the fact that i think because kirk is mainly a defensive midfielder, i think he woud be great as an emergency player, ie use him when there is a star midfielder in the opposition... in order to win the finals and GFs we need to transfer the tagging roles to us, ie rather than us worry about them by including kirk as a tagger have them worry about us and have them include their taggers...

i really like kirky, dont get me wrong, he does have some development left in his bones just yet imo... id have him in the starting 18 until we have the star midfielders that everyine else is worried about!

[Nico]

Can't come to grips with the argument that Kirk will a replacement for Cresswell.

Although Cressa has done some good close checking jobs in the past, I doubt whether you could regard him as a stopper. If we are to regard Cressa as a stopper them Kirk will have to get at least another 15-20 possessions a game to come near him.

Two different players I believe, hardly able to be compared.

I will however agree with the argument that we should have more attacking players. Under Eade half the team were taggers.

Also Crouch is not that flash on the disposal, so I would rather see him as one of the designated taggers rather than being let loose in the midfield. Lacks genuine leg speed to be a really affective midfielder.

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking him, because he is in our starting 18. It's just that someone like Fixter who has superior anticipation and disposal would be better groomed as a long term midfielder. Is very damaging when he gets going and can't wait for his return to add some "punch" and bite to the team.

[penga]

Originally posted by Nico

Also Crouch is not that flash on the disposal, so I would rather see him as one of the designated taggers rather than being let loose in the midfield. Lacks genuine leg speed to be a really affective midfielder.

are you serious about crouch not having speed? please say youre not, coz u do realise he won the GF 100m sprint???

[Nico]

Yes I did forget the 100m dash, but what hacks did he run against. Also if he is so quick, why is it that in a one on one dash for the footy he always seems to come in second and do the tackling? Hence his great tackling stats.

When they have the footy, run through the centre and are getting balanced to deliver, with some players their speed is severely diminished. If their speed is not diminished then the disposal of these types is poorer. Crouch delivers his kicks low with not enough penetration because he doesn't seem to be able to combine both attributes.

Fixter on the other hand seems to balance up within stride and maintains speed, and is a far better delivery of the pill.

[Cheer Cheer]

Have to agree with penga, nico you are way off the mark with crouch. Crouch does have great penetration with his kicks. He has done numerous high beautiful long bombs at full pace from outside 50 mtrs, ala willo for goals, or for a matter of fact coming out of defensive or whereever.
I think you have fixter and crouch back to front.
Crouch has pace to burn as well as good disposal.

[Newbie]

Most of our young ball winners are ****e delivery of the ball. For this we wont be able to really kill the opposition when we get the ball from stopages. I believe this could be the reason for our current game plan which is trying to get the ball from the half back (using our number to the ball advantage) and then moving the ball using our more-skilled runners and hopefully they will get the ball to our potent forward line. The problem with this game plan is that if their defense mounts a wall across their backline (or back line) and are able to force a stopage then our attack is nulified or wasted. In the forward 50, the pressure is high, the space is tight and thus ball winner with has much less chance to deliver the ball effectively which often results in a turnout, or a simple behind. Then we have to start the surge from the half back again.

This requires plenty of runnings from our players which is quite taxing on their bodies. I dont know if our players could carry this plan out for a whole season with great success.

In our list, probably only Fixter and O"keefe have potential to be ball winner with some decent delivery. But now I have lost my hope on O'Keefe to be a ball winner. He always seems to be second to the contest. Schneider seems to have potential but he is smallish. Albett is mentioned to be an outside runner. So Fixter is probably our only genuine hope. Certainly we do need some quality reinforcement in this area in the next couple of drafts.

[Newbie]

Originally posted by Cheer Cheer
Have to agree with penga, nico you are way off the mark with crouch. Crouch does have great penetration with his kicks. He has done numerous high beautiful long bombs at full pace from outside 50 mtrs, ala willo for goals, or for a matter of fact coming out of defensive or whereever.
I think you have fixter and crouch back to front.
Crouch has pace to burn as well as good disposal.

I have to disagree with both you and penga here. Crouchy is a long kick but his kicking is woeful under pressure or at high pace.
The flight of the ball from his kicks does not seem balance or right to me. I cannot recall the last time I saw him pinpointed a teammate in a reasonably crowded spot.

[penga]

Originally posted by Newbie
I have to disagree with both you and penga here. Crouchy is a long kick but his kicking is woeful under pressure or at high pace.
The flight of the ball from his kicks does not seem balance or right to me. I cannot recall the last time I saw him pinpointed a teammate in a reasonably crowded spot.

therefore u r not disagreeing with me... Cheer Cheer was agreeing with me on the speed factor, i never said anything about disposal

[Dpw]

Originally posted by penga
are you serious about crouch not having speed? please say youre not, coz u do realise he won the GF 100m sprint???

Penga, I saw the GF 100m and yes Crouch is a fine sprinter but he is a Carl Lewis not a Ben Johnson which means he starts slow and finishes with a kick which unfortunatley means he rarley gets to use his top end speed in AFL footy. although I would not say he is slow he just can't use his speed when he needs to brake lines.

He is a fine run with but as a qaulity on baller he will be found wanting imo.

[swan_song]

While one can excuse certain players for having down nights, the fact that only one swans player (Ben Mathews) reached 20-plus posessions, whereas five Freo players did (Hasselby 37; Bell 29; Carr 21; Cookie 26; Pavlich 27) is a significant failure on our running brigade. But to criticise Kirk is IMHO way off the mark...
You can't on the one hand argue that he's not up to league standard, yet say that headland is a better player (which I believe he is) then not give credit to the man for beating a champion. Kirk's negating role on headland was excellent work and he deserves my accolade as perhaps the swans best on the night. However, I did not think any Swans player deserved a vote in the TL Medal this week, so no votes were awarded by me.
Player K H P M HO T FF FA G B
Des Headland 7 1 8 3 0 1 1 2 1 2
Brett Kirk 1 9 10 0 0 4 1 1 0 0

[penga]

Originally posted by Dpw
Penga, I saw the GF 100m and yes Crouch is a fine sprinter but he is a Carl Lewis not a Ben Johnson which means he starts slow and finishes with a kick which unfortunatley means he rarley gets to use his top end speed in AFL footy. although I would not say he is slow he just can't use his speed when he needs to brake lines.

He is a fine run with but as a qaulity on baller he will be found wanting imo.

well, in the carlton game i noticed that he was able to use that speed as he would sprint ahead of the play to the open space and as there was no pressure put on by the blues' players they could hit him on the run... i thought it worked quite effectively

[sharp9]

Thanks for the Kirk stats, Snajik.

To put in my two cents I am big fan of Kirk - love his heart (OK OK he's needs more consistency, but let's face it he is a Swan after all).

When you factor in Fixter being about the only player in the whole of 2002 to stop Milne then you'd have to say the glass is half full on the tagging side of things.

[penga]

Originally posted by sharp9
Fixter being about the only player in the whole of 2002 to stop Milne

as with dew

[penga]

Originally posted by Nico
Also Crouch is not that flash on the disposal, so I would rather see him as one of the designated taggers rather than being let loose in the midfield. Lacks genuine leg speed to be a really affective midfielder.

sorry, nico but im gonna use your post again...

today i was watching last year's game on FFC and in one passage of play, mcleod got the ball and absolutely streaked away from willo, both were runnin with a full head of steam and the commentator noted that "he was running away from paul williams then"

then with about 6mins to go in the 4th quarter, crouchy ran down mcleod... crouchy didnt tackle him but mcleod had to change his line coz he knew crouchy was gonna catch him, and catch him easily...

until i saw that i thought that mcleod was actually the quickest in the league, but it looks like we got one on our side that is quicker than him

300, yay

[Dpw]

Originally posted by penga
sorry, nico but im gonna use your post again...

today i was watching last year's game on FFC and in one passage of play, mcleod got the ball and absolutely streaked away from willo, both were runnin with a full head of steam and the commentator noted that "he was running away from paul williams then"

then with about 6mins to go in the 4th quarter, crouchy ran down mcleod... crouchy didnt tackle him but mcleod had to change his line coz he knew crouchy was gonna catch him, and catch him easily...

until i saw that i thought that mcleod was actually the quickest in the league, but it looks like we got one on our side that is quicker than him

300, yay

Penga, your talking about one player chasing one down who has the ball you can't compare that - also you will find the fastest player in the league will be one that you will problably never had figured on as running in a straight line is completely different to running during a game with or without the ball.

for what its worth I thing Crouch would be up there over the hundred I would say he has a athletics background his technique is fantastic and keeps his body still and balanced.

Just a note imo Jamie"speedy"Lawson was the best speedster we had at the Swans he was the only highlight in those years and his career would have been alot greater had he not got that rod insereted into his leg after a bad break.