1998 Draft

[caj23]

Alot of people have questioned the swans drafting of Fossie and Fitzy at 3 & 4 in the 1998 draft.

However having reviewed the top 30 picks it is clear that it was an exceptionally poor draft

As far as Key Position players go, in my view Fitzy showed the most talent (from his few performances) and we couldn't have predicted that he would be so injury prone.

As for Fossie i can only pick 2 players that are clearly better performers than him, Carr and Hayes

I would call McVeigh, Stenglein, Burton, Ramanaskus and Rawlings break even (but i'm happy with Fossie above any of them)

1998 Top 30

1. Des Headland
2. Justin Longmuir
3. Nic Fosdike
4. Ryan Fitzgerald
5. Michael Stevens
6. Murray Vance
7. Josh Carr
8. Jude Bolton
9. Mark McVeigh
10. Brandon Hill
11. Lenny Hayes
12. Adam Ramanauskas
13. Chris Lamb
14. Luke Penny
15. Brady Rawlings
16. Brett Burton
17. Peter Street
18. Daniel Schell
19. Nick Davis
20. Michael Collica
21. David Clarke
22. James Begley
23. Chris Ladhams
24. David Wojcinski
25. Aaron Henneman
26. Michael O'Brien
27. Steven Baker
28. Heath James
29. Tyson Stenglein
30. Nicky Winmar


So i guess in summary, given the quality of the draft we did well to come out with a competent running player that willl play >100 games for our club

I guess it was just unfortunate that we didn't have these high picks in a better quality draft, although it's difficult to criticise on this front as O'Farrel forced his trade on to us and Mooney knees were shot and had just put in a good performance in the State of Origin to lift his value

[chammond]

I think much of the criticism centred on the fact that we overlooked two quality locals in Hayes and McVeigh to go for two South Australians, one of whom was actually a country footballer.

We didn't have the excuse that the local boys were unknown quantities, because Hayes and McVeigh (and Davis) had been under close scrutiny by all the scouts at U18 level.

Fosdike was highly rated, but I suspect that we might have got carried away by the strong rumours that the Crows were desperate to grab Fitzgerald, but couldn't snag an early enough pick. As it was, we got Fitzgerald and the Crows got Burton, which made them pretty happy in the long run.

That Fitzgerald (and James) turned out so injury prone was just bad luck, but overlooking McVeigh and Hayes in the first place was just foolish.

[caj23]

I think much of the criticism centred on the fact that we overlooked two quality locals in Hayes and McVeigh to go for two South Australians, one of whom was actually a country footballer.

I disagree with this

We were after a key postion forward as Locketts retirement was iminent, Fitzgerald was the best available prospect. Had we taken McVeigh then we would have drafted 3 potential onballers and not addressed our key position requirements.

Also I'm sure there'd be a few people who would be affronted by you labelling the SANFL a country football league

As for the Mcveigh v Fosdike, the swans obviously rated him higher so took the player who in their view was the more talented. As it stands now i'd probably rank them fairly evenly in regards to their talent

I'm personally not of the view of taking NSW players for the sake of it and i guess we will see how this turns out in the next few years as we view Mcveigh junior and Salopek develop

The only mistake we made IMO was taking Fossie ahead of Hayes

[Damien]

Originally posted by Will Sangster
I disagree with this

We were after a key postion forward as Locketts retirement was iminent, Fitzgerald was the best available prospect. Had we taken McVeigh then we would have drafted 3 potential onballers and not addressed our key position requirements.

Also I'm sure there'd be a few people who would be affronted by you labelling the SANFL a country football league

As for the Mcveigh v Fosdike, the swans obviously rated him higher so took the player who in their view was the more talented. As it stands now i'd probably rank them fairly evenly in regards to their talent

I'm personally not of the view of taking NSW players for the sake of it and i guess we will see how this turns out in the next few years as we view Mcveigh junior and Salopek develop

The only mistake we made IMO was taking Fossie ahead of Hayes

We would have still got Fitzgerald even if we went for Hayes and McVeigh.

I say if NSW players are ranked close enough to other players in the part of the draft we are picking in (and they fit what we need), why not go for them over interstate players?

Wipes out out the Grant/Rocca scenario and probably means we end up with more life long/local fans playing for us, which I think is a fantastic thing in itself.

[caj23]

yeah some fair points there Damien, i guess it could have panned out a number of different ways

i still stick to my point though that it was a poor draft and that Fosdike was a reasonable get compared to what else was on offer

Hayes is definitely one that got away though

[caj23]

God i'm bored this arvo

I just did a rough analysis of the top 30 picks and reslected them in the order that they would be taken now (very tough to do with the delisted players!)

1 11. Lenny Hayes
2 7. Josh Carr
3 8. Jude Bolton
4 2. Justin Longmuir
5 1. Des Headland
6 9. Mark McVeigh
7 3. Nic Fosdike
8 19. Nick Davis
9 29. Tyson Stenglein
10 15. Brady Rawlings
11 16. Brett Burton
12 24. David Wojcinski
13 14. Luke Penny
14 12. Adam Ramanauskas
15 5. Michael Stevens
16 27. Steven Baker
17 22. James Begley
18 25. Aaron Henneman
19 21. David Clarke
20 28. Heath James
21 17. Peter Street
22 23. Chris Ladhams
23 4. Ryan Fitzgerald
24 20. Michael Collica
25 13. Chris Lamb
26 30. Nicky Winmar
27 18. Daniel Schell
28 26. Michael O'Brien
29 10. Brandon Hill
30 6. Murray Vance


Based on this Jude was a bargain, and completely missed the boat on Hayes

The difference between Fossie and McVeigh is neglible IMO

[chammond]

Originally posted by Will Sangster
I disagree with this

We were after a key postion forward as Locketts retirement was iminent, Fitzgerald was the best available prospect. Had we taken McVeigh then we would have drafted 3 potential onballers and not addressed our key position requirements.

Also I'm sure there'd be a few people who would be affronted by you labelling the SANFL a country football league

As for the Mcveigh v Fosdike, the swans obviously rated him higher so took the player who in their view was the more talented. As it stands now i'd probably rank them fairly evenly in regards to their talent

I'm personally not of the view of taking NSW players for the sake of it and i guess we will see how this turns out in the next few years as we view Mcveigh junior and Salopek develop

The only mistake we made IMO was taking Fossie ahead of Hayes

Yeah, after all this time it's only conjecture anyway. Fosdike could have a barnstorming 2005, and Hayes could break a leg, and 1998 would look like a success after all . . . . but at the time, there were more than a few raised eyebrows.

BTW, my memory tells me that Fitzgerald never played city football before he moved to the Swans, SANFL or otherwise?

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Will Sangster
God i'm bored this arvo

I just did a rough analysis of the top 30 picks and reslected them in the order that they would be taken now (very tough to do with the delisted players!)

1 11. Lenny Hayes
2 7. Josh Carr
3 8. Jude Bolton
4 2. Justin Longmuir
5 1. Des Headland
6 9. Mark McVeigh
7 3. Nic Fosdike
8 19. Nick Davis
9 29. Tyson Stenglein
10 15. Brady Rawlings
11 16. Brett Burton
12 24. David Wojcinski
13 14. Luke Penny
14 12. Adam Ramanauskas
15 5. Michael Stevens
16 27. Steven Baker
17 22. James Begley
18 25. Aaron Henneman
19 21. David Clarke
20 28. Heath James
21 17. Peter Street
22 23. Chris Ladhams
23 4. Ryan Fitzgerald
24 20. Michael Collica
25 13. Chris Lamb
26 30. Nicky Winmar
27 18. Daniel Schell
28 26. Michael O'Brien
29 10. Brandon Hill
30 6. Murray Vance


Based on this Jude was a bargain, and completely missed the boat on Hayes

The difference between Fossie and McVeigh is neglible IMO

Fossie would be behind Davis, Stenglein, Burton, Penny, Rawlings and Ramanauskas.

Of the players still playing, I'd have him ahead of Wojcinski, Stevens, Baker, Begley, Henneman, James, Clarke, Street and Ladhams.

That would make him selection 13.

[DST]

Originally posted by chammond
BTW, my memory tells me that Fitzgerald never played city football before he moved to the Swans, SANFL or otherwise?

Fitzgerald played a full year in the seniors at South Adelaide as a 19 year old at full forward/Centre Half Forward.

He topped their goal kicking and was top five in their B&F that season.

Was considered at the time the best young key forward in the draft but had question marks over his knees after earlier spending a year out of the Under 18's at South with a knee injury.

DST

[Captain]

Originally posted by Charlie
Fossie would be behind Davis, Stenglein, Burton, Penny, Rawlings and Ramanauskas.

Of the players still playing, I'd have him ahead of Wojcinski, Stevens, Baker, Begley, Henneman, James, Clarke, Street and Ladhams.

That would make him selection 13.

Agree with that Charlie.

Fosdike is definately not top 10.

[liz]

Originally posted by Charlie
Fossie would be behind Davis, Stenglein, Burton, Penny, Rawlings and Ramanauskas.

I'd take him before Brett Burton and he has more runs on the board to date than Penny (though Penny's height might get him the nod in a draft situation). For the Swans I'd also probably take him before Stenglein and Rawlings, on the basis that we already have some pretty good defensive midfielders, while Fosdike is a decent attacking midfielder when he's fit.

[SimonH]

Whether you put Fossie at 7 or 13 (and that's with the power of 6 years' 20/20 vision- wouldn't we all love to have that come draft time!), it's pretty obvious that:
a) selecting him wasn't a bad decision compared with many other top 5 picks over the years
b) talk of giving up a regular first-18 player for 'pick 30' (or whatever) come trade-talk time is just hilarious nonsense.

Unless the player is of a type that the team has an embarrassing surfeit, no automatic-pick selection should ever be traded for less than about pick 15. (Obviously I don't necessarily include multiple-club trades, where what the club is getting isn't really the draft pick, in that sweeping statement.)

Despite a lot of nonsense written by a lot of people, on what we've seen so far pick 15 is about right for Darren Jolly, and good value for Sydney bearing in mind that we had a priority of getting a ruckman who's ready to play firsts right now. We'll have a look at who Melbourne drafts, and come about 2010 make a final judgment on who won out on the deal...

[chammond]

Originally posted by SimonH
We'll have a look at who Melbourne drafts, and come about 2010 make a final judgment on who won out on the deal...

If you think this Board will wait six years to pass judgement on the deal, you're crazy.

If you meant 20:10 on the evening of the 2004 National Draft . . . you'd be pretty close.

I reckon the lynch mob will have made up its mind by then.

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by chammond
If you think this Board will wait six years to pass judgement on the deal, you're crazy.

If you meant 20:10 on the evening of the 2004 National Draft . . . you'd be pretty close.

I reckon the lynch mob will have made up its mind by then.

6 years, pfft, chammond is right. I decide to bag a decision made by the club before it is even made. Regardless of what the club does I will bag it to the nth degree.


[I actually thought the Jolly deal was pretty good - we've enough kids ATM and from the limited amount I've seen off him he looks a fair sort of player - but don't tell anyone I said that]