1998 Draft

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  • caj23
    Senior Player
    • Aug 2003
    • 2462

    1998 Draft

    Alot of people have questioned the swans drafting of Fossie and Fitzy at 3 & 4 in the 1998 draft.

    However having reviewed the top 30 picks it is clear that it was an exceptionally poor draft

    As far as Key Position players go, in my view Fitzy showed the most talent (from his few performances) and we couldn't have predicted that he would be so injury prone.

    As for Fossie i can only pick 2 players that are clearly better performers than him, Carr and Hayes

    I would call McVeigh, Stenglein, Burton, Ramanaskus and Rawlings break even (but i'm happy with Fossie above any of them)

    1998 Top 30

    1. Des Headland
    2. Justin Longmuir
    3. Nic Fosdike
    4. Ryan Fitzgerald
    5. Michael Stevens
    6. Murray Vance
    7. Josh Carr
    8. Jude Bolton
    9. Mark McVeigh
    10. Brandon Hill
    11. Lenny Hayes
    12. Adam Ramanauskas
    13. Chris Lamb
    14. Luke Penny
    15. Brady Rawlings
    16. Brett Burton
    17. Peter Street
    18. Daniel Schell
    19. Nick Davis
    20. Michael Collica
    21. David Clarke
    22. James Begley
    23. Chris Ladhams
    24. David Wojcinski
    25. Aaron Henneman
    26. Michael O'Brien
    27. Steven Baker
    28. Heath James
    29. Tyson Stenglein
    30. Nicky Winmar


    So i guess in summary, given the quality of the draft we did well to come out with a competent running player that willl play >100 games for our club

    I guess it was just unfortunate that we didn't have these high picks in a better quality draft, although it's difficult to criticise on this front as O'Farrel forced his trade on to us and Mooney knees were shot and had just put in a good performance in the State of Origin to lift his value
  • chammond
    • Jan 2003
    • 1368

    #2
    I think much of the criticism centred on the fact that we overlooked two quality locals in Hayes and McVeigh to go for two South Australians, one of whom was actually a country footballer.

    We didn't have the excuse that the local boys were unknown quantities, because Hayes and McVeigh (and Davis) had been under close scrutiny by all the scouts at U18 level.

    Fosdike was highly rated, but I suspect that we might have got carried away by the strong rumours that the Crows were desperate to grab Fitzgerald, but couldn't snag an early enough pick. As it was, we got Fitzgerald and the Crows got Burton, which made them pretty happy in the long run.

    That Fitzgerald (and James) turned out so injury prone was just bad luck, but overlooking McVeigh and Hayes in the first place was just foolish.

    Comment

    • caj23
      Senior Player
      • Aug 2003
      • 2462

      #3
      I think much of the criticism centred on the fact that we overlooked two quality locals in Hayes and McVeigh to go for two South Australians, one of whom was actually a country footballer.
      I disagree with this

      We were after a key postion forward as Locketts retirement was iminent, Fitzgerald was the best available prospect. Had we taken McVeigh then we would have drafted 3 potential onballers and not addressed our key position requirements.

      Also I'm sure there'd be a few people who would be affronted by you labelling the SANFL a country football league

      As for the Mcveigh v Fosdike, the swans obviously rated him higher so took the player who in their view was the more talented. As it stands now i'd probably rank them fairly evenly in regards to their talent

      I'm personally not of the view of taking NSW players for the sake of it and i guess we will see how this turns out in the next few years as we view Mcveigh junior and Salopek develop

      The only mistake we made IMO was taking Fossie ahead of Hayes

      Comment

      • Damien
        Living in 2005
        • Jan 2003
        • 3713

        #4
        Originally posted by Will Sangster
        I disagree with this

        We were after a key postion forward as Locketts retirement was iminent, Fitzgerald was the best available prospect. Had we taken McVeigh then we would have drafted 3 potential onballers and not addressed our key position requirements.

        Also I'm sure there'd be a few people who would be affronted by you labelling the SANFL a country football league

        As for the Mcveigh v Fosdike, the swans obviously rated him higher so took the player who in their view was the more talented. As it stands now i'd probably rank them fairly evenly in regards to their talent

        I'm personally not of the view of taking NSW players for the sake of it and i guess we will see how this turns out in the next few years as we view Mcveigh junior and Salopek develop

        The only mistake we made IMO was taking Fossie ahead of Hayes
        We would have still got Fitzgerald even if we went for Hayes and McVeigh.

        I say if NSW players are ranked close enough to other players in the part of the draft we are picking in (and they fit what we need), why not go for them over interstate players?

        Wipes out out the Grant/Rocca scenario and probably means we end up with more life long/local fans playing for us, which I think is a fantastic thing in itself.

        Comment

        • caj23
          Senior Player
          • Aug 2003
          • 2462

          #5
          yeah some fair points there Damien, i guess it could have panned out a number of different ways

          i still stick to my point though that it was a poor draft and that Fosdike was a reasonable get compared to what else was on offer

          Hayes is definitely one that got away though

          Comment

          • caj23
            Senior Player
            • Aug 2003
            • 2462

            #6
            God i'm bored this arvo

            I just did a rough analysis of the top 30 picks and reslected them in the order that they would be taken now (very tough to do with the delisted players!)

            1 11. Lenny Hayes
            2 7. Josh Carr
            3 8. Jude Bolton
            4 2. Justin Longmuir
            5 1. Des Headland
            6 9. Mark McVeigh
            7 3. Nic Fosdike
            8 19. Nick Davis
            9 29. Tyson Stenglein
            10 15. Brady Rawlings
            11 16. Brett Burton
            12 24. David Wojcinski
            13 14. Luke Penny
            14 12. Adam Ramanauskas
            15 5. Michael Stevens
            16 27. Steven Baker
            17 22. James Begley
            18 25. Aaron Henneman
            19 21. David Clarke
            20 28. Heath James
            21 17. Peter Street
            22 23. Chris Ladhams
            23 4. Ryan Fitzgerald
            24 20. Michael Collica
            25 13. Chris Lamb
            26 30. Nicky Winmar
            27 18. Daniel Schell
            28 26. Michael O'Brien
            29 10. Brandon Hill
            30 6. Murray Vance


            Based on this Jude was a bargain, and completely missed the boat on Hayes

            The difference between Fossie and McVeigh is neglible IMO

            Comment

            • chammond
              • Jan 2003
              • 1368

              #7
              Originally posted by Will Sangster
              I disagree with this

              We were after a key postion forward as Locketts retirement was iminent, Fitzgerald was the best available prospect. Had we taken McVeigh then we would have drafted 3 potential onballers and not addressed our key position requirements.

              Also I'm sure there'd be a few people who would be affronted by you labelling the SANFL a country football league

              As for the Mcveigh v Fosdike, the swans obviously rated him higher so took the player who in their view was the more talented. As it stands now i'd probably rank them fairly evenly in regards to their talent

              I'm personally not of the view of taking NSW players for the sake of it and i guess we will see how this turns out in the next few years as we view Mcveigh junior and Salopek develop

              The only mistake we made IMO was taking Fossie ahead of Hayes
              Yeah, after all this time it's only conjecture anyway. Fosdike could have a barnstorming 2005, and Hayes could break a leg, and 1998 would look like a success after all . . . . but at the time, there were more than a few raised eyebrows.

              BTW, my memory tells me that Fitzgerald never played city football before he moved to the Swans, SANFL or otherwise?

              Comment

              • Charlie
                On the Rookie List
                • Jan 2003
                • 4101

                #8
                Originally posted by Will Sangster
                God i'm bored this arvo

                I just did a rough analysis of the top 30 picks and reslected them in the order that they would be taken now (very tough to do with the delisted players!)

                1 11. Lenny Hayes
                2 7. Josh Carr
                3 8. Jude Bolton
                4 2. Justin Longmuir
                5 1. Des Headland
                6 9. Mark McVeigh
                7 3. Nic Fosdike
                8 19. Nick Davis
                9 29. Tyson Stenglein
                10 15. Brady Rawlings
                11 16. Brett Burton
                12 24. David Wojcinski
                13 14. Luke Penny
                14 12. Adam Ramanauskas
                15 5. Michael Stevens
                16 27. Steven Baker
                17 22. James Begley
                18 25. Aaron Henneman
                19 21. David Clarke
                20 28. Heath James
                21 17. Peter Street
                22 23. Chris Ladhams
                23 4. Ryan Fitzgerald
                24 20. Michael Collica
                25 13. Chris Lamb
                26 30. Nicky Winmar
                27 18. Daniel Schell
                28 26. Michael O'Brien
                29 10. Brandon Hill
                30 6. Murray Vance


                Based on this Jude was a bargain, and completely missed the boat on Hayes

                The difference between Fossie and McVeigh is neglible IMO
                Fossie would be behind Davis, Stenglein, Burton, Penny, Rawlings and Ramanauskas.

                Of the players still playing, I'd have him ahead of Wojcinski, Stevens, Baker, Begley, Henneman, James, Clarke, Street and Ladhams.

                That would make him selection 13.
                We hate Anthony Rocca
                We hate Shannon Grant too
                We hate scumbag Gaspar
                But Leo WE LOVE YOU!

                Comment

                • DST
                  The voice of reason!
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 2705

                  #9
                  Originally posted by chammond
                  BTW, my memory tells me that Fitzgerald never played city football before he moved to the Swans, SANFL or otherwise?
                  Fitzgerald played a full year in the seniors at South Adelaide as a 19 year old at full forward/Centre Half Forward.

                  He topped their goal kicking and was top five in their B&F that season.

                  Was considered at the time the best young key forward in the draft but had question marks over his knees after earlier spending a year out of the Under 18's at South with a knee injury.

                  DST
                  "Looking forward to a rebuilt, new, fast and exciting Swans model in 2010"

                  Comment

                  • Captain
                    Captain of the Side
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 3602

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Charlie
                    Fossie would be behind Davis, Stenglein, Burton, Penny, Rawlings and Ramanauskas.

                    Of the players still playing, I'd have him ahead of Wojcinski, Stevens, Baker, Begley, Henneman, James, Clarke, Street and Ladhams.

                    That would make him selection 13.
                    Agree with that Charlie.

                    Fosdike is definately not top 10.

                    Comment

                    • liz
                      Veteran
                      Site Admin
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 16741

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Charlie
                      Fossie would be behind Davis, Stenglein, Burton, Penny, Rawlings and Ramanauskas.

                      I'd take him before Brett Burton and he has more runs on the board to date than Penny (though Penny's height might get him the nod in a draft situation). For the Swans I'd also probably take him before Stenglein and Rawlings, on the basis that we already have some pretty good defensive midfielders, while Fosdike is a decent attacking midfielder when he's fit.

                      Comment

                      • SimonH
                        Salt future's rising
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 1647

                        #12
                        Whether you put Fossie at 7 or 13 (and that's with the power of 6 years' 20/20 vision- wouldn't we all love to have that come draft time!), it's pretty obvious that:
                        a) selecting him wasn't a bad decision compared with many other top 5 picks over the years
                        b) talk of giving up a regular first-18 player for 'pick 30' (or whatever) come trade-talk time is just hilarious nonsense.

                        Unless the player is of a type that the team has an embarrassing surfeit, no automatic-pick selection should ever be traded for less than about pick 15. (Obviously I don't necessarily include multiple-club trades, where what the club is getting isn't really the draft pick, in that sweeping statement.)

                        Despite a lot of nonsense written by a lot of people, on what we've seen so far pick 15 is about right for Darren Jolly, and good value for Sydney bearing in mind that we had a priority of getting a ruckman who's ready to play firsts right now. We'll have a look at who Melbourne drafts, and come about 2010 make a final judgment on who won out on the deal...

                        Comment

                        • chammond
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 1368

                          #13
                          Originally posted by SimonH
                          We'll have a look at who Melbourne drafts, and come about 2010 make a final judgment on who won out on the deal...
                          If you think this Board will wait six years to pass judgement on the deal, you're crazy.

                          If you meant 20:10 on the evening of the 2004 National Draft . . . you'd be pretty close.

                          I reckon the lynch mob will have made up its mind by then.

                          Comment

                          • ROK Lobster
                            RWO Life Member
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 8658

                            #14
                            Originally posted by chammond
                            If you think this Board will wait six years to pass judgement on the deal, you're crazy.

                            If you meant 20:10 on the evening of the 2004 National Draft . . . you'd be pretty close.

                            I reckon the lynch mob will have made up its mind by then.
                            6 years, pfft, chammond is right. I decide to bag a decision made by the club before it is even made. Regardless of what the club does I will bag it to the nth degree.


                            [I actually thought the Jolly deal was pretty good - we've enough kids ATM and from the limited amount I've seen off him he looks a fair sort of player - but don't tell anyone I said that]

                            Comment

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