A Talented Team

[Ruda Wakening]

What?

[Nico]

Re: Re: A Talented Team

Originally posted by swansrule100
IMHO you have williams too high and jude bolton too low.
A friend of mine (a swans fan) thinks saddington should play midfield, any thougts?

Surely he's gaggin'

[smasher]

I honestly don't think we will know whose got the goods(pardon the pun) till the real stuff gets going.Pre season is very important for fitness and skill development along with team bonding but I don't think it gives us a real indication of a players AFL senior capabilities.

[sharp9]

BUMP!!!!!!

I know I've been going on about it since a very long rave following the Adelaide Capitulation at the start of 2003. I just, pathetically, hope that someone will listen to me because I love this game and this team and I can't stand what's happening!

It always makes me think of the first game my wife ever saw...walking in I'm trying to explain the rules, she knew nothing. On the day we were supporting Richmond (Vs Melbourne....don't ask it was favour to a friend who organised the tickets).

The Tiges were pathetic, couldn't hit a barn door from 10 feet. Down by 48 points at half time. Our area was very quiet, especially when a Tiger kicked it lace out to a Demon very close to our fence with a team mate metres in the clear. As the graon faded Wifey jumps to her feet and screams at the top of her lungs "JUST GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WEARING THE SAME COLOUR AS YOU......IT'S A SIMPLE CONCEPT!!!!!!" Everyone fell about laughing, but a footy fan was born (seeing Jeff Farmer take on of the marks of the century helped as well)

"It's a simple concept," has become a catch phrase ever since, and really it is. Give it to a mate in better position than you. How hard can it be?

A lot of selection is predicated on HOW MANY TIMES a player may or may not get the ball, well unless he is WINNING HIS OWN BALL then it is time to say "bugger that" as a selection criteria. What does he do WHEN HE GETS IT has to come to the fore because we are going down the toilet otherwise.

Ask an opposing coach how he would feel if given a crystal ball that says "after tonight's match B. Mathews will have amassed 30 possessions" he'll think "mmm, that's not good, they seem to have won a lot of the ball."

If the crystal ball said "after tonight's match J. McVeigh will have amassed 30 possessions" he will think "Oh, ****, we probably got done!"

Geddit?

[NMWBloods]

Re: A Talented Team

Originally posted by sharp9
There must be some sort of mathematical formula where T = talent and B = ability to get the ball, whereupon the greates sums determine who gets picked.

In the midfield you can add to the equation Q = number of possession opposition quality player does NOT get.

So T + B + Q = n

I liked your little formula at the time. I would modify it a bit though.

n = S + B * Q - T - O

S = inherent skill (as per your original T)

B = ability to get the ball

Q = quality of what you do with the ball

T = typical number of turnovers

O = number of quality possessions opposition player gets

[NMWBloods]

Based on this you might have examples like:

High S - Williams, McVeigh

High B - J Bolton, Mathews
Low B - Davis

High Q - Williams, Davis
Medium Q - J Bolton
Low Q - Mathews

High T - Mathews

High O - J Bolton
Low O - Mathews, Crouch

[sharp9]

OK enough of the Einstein's let's pick the bloody team, then!

I'm advocating not picking Mathews, Fosdike, Spriggs, Bevan, Maxfield or Crouch in the midfield ever again. Add to that Schneider who is so puffed when he does get the ball that he delivers from the midfield with nothing like his optimum level of skill.

Kirk, Jude, Ablett, McVeigh, Davis....That's five midfielders....leave them on for a fair bit to try and sort it out. To rotate in from the back flanks or forward pockets or bench...Buchanan, C. Bolton, Kennelly, Goodes, One of the skillful youngsters (Malceski, Willoughby, Schmidt, Moore, Potter).

If B2 or Kennelly or Goodes go to the midfield for a period then really put them in there! Take a midfielder off and make sure that a Dempster, Nicks or Saddington is actually placed on the half back flank as a replacement.

Leave Spriggs, Fosdike, Mathews, Crouch, Maxfield, Schneider for tagging or Forward crumbing (if they are selected)

And MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL if we HAVE to play a loose man at the back FFS make him a highly skilled deliverer and playmaker....

Vs the Brisbane Chris Johnson or Stuart Maxfield....HELLO!!!

Vs Adelaide Andrew McLeod or Ben Mathews!!!!!! HELLO!!!!

[NMWBloods]

Seems generally reasonable.

[originalswan]

Based on this you might have examples like:

High S - Williams, McVeigh

High B - J Bolton, Mathews
Low B - Davis

High Q - Williams, Davis
Medium Q - J Bolton
Low Q - Mathews

High T - Mathews

High O - J Bolton
Low O - Mathews, Crouch

I want another equation placed in this formula - IQ.

Now problem was we had alot of players in the negative part of the scale with IQ therefore diminishing their overall performance.

Therefore n = S (IQ) + B * Q - T - O

[Jude4eva]

Sharp9 how doesnt Jolly make your team?? hes alot better than Doyle and more mobile

Can you pls explain

[Nico]

Originally posted by originalswan
Based on this you might have examples like:

High S - Williams, McVeigh

High B - J Bolton, Mathews
Low B - Davis

High Q - Williams, Davis
Medium Q - J Bolton
Low Q - Mathews

High T - Mathews

High O - J Bolton
Low O - Mathews, Crouch

I want another equation placed in this formula - IQ.

Now problem was we had alot of players in the negative part of the scale with IQ therefore diminishing their overall performance.

Therefore n = S (IQ) + B * Q - T - O

Oh the IQ factor.

I vote that when we draft a player he is subject to an IQ test. (not just what's ya mums name) That means we can build a team of players who can both think and play at the same time.

This thread originally mentioned the ability to run as against kicking. I suspect we have enough runners so when we draft we add the following factors:

K for kicking ability

IQ for brains

So we have players who can think, kick, run and play at the same time, then we might have some players who can pick out and hit a target on the run.

What about throwing in SE for selfless and TE for team player.

It's s imple really because that is what we lack.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by originalswan
I want another equation placed in this formula - IQ.

Yeah, I think football smarts are enormously important, however I was wrapping that up as Q - quality of your disposals, which included both how good the kick or handball is as well as how well you pick out a teammate.

[Wil]

How about:

Fitness
Positioning without the ball
Injury prone(ness)
Organisation
Gamewinner ability

I guess you can go on and on.

[sharp9]

Originally posted by Jude4eva
Sharp9 how doesnt Jolly make your team?? hes alot better than Doyle and more mobile

Can you pls explain

Because (as Ruckman backed me up) Doyle was a lot better than Jolly vs Essendon and the Bulldogs in the pre-season, which were the only games played when I put the team up.

But now Jolly has played one excellent game, which is one more than Doyley but then his tap work is still really average.

Yes Wil you can go on and on....

I'd bring it back to Q (quality of disposal...which implies footy smarts and vision as well)...a simple Q rating or as the old fashioned pundits say "pick the ball players."

1 = Unreliable, comparitively low skilled, average to poor vision
2 = Solid, reliable user of the footy to advantage
3 = Mucho talento....special

Brett Kirk is the Quintessential number 2 type player. (Along with West and Simpson) C. Bolton is there and Jude has stepped up to number 2 this year. Ablett and Buchanan are nearly there.

Paul Williams is a typical number 3. I'm tempted to add a 4th category for only Judd, Ball, Voss etc...but I'm not going to. All number 3s have moments of genius, some just more often than others.

No number ones should be allowed in our midfield!!!!!!
EVER

Davis, Kennelly, Goodes and McVeigh have the number 3 gene...but they sometimes forget when not given enough game time or played in the wrong position

Anyone reckon that any of the youngsters could be a number 3 midfielder? We don't get to see the reserves down here. I'm a bit exctied about Dempster even though he is KPP size and we haven't actually seen him delivering lace out to forwards from a pressure situation.

1 Mathews, Maxfield, Crouch, Bevan, Spriggs, Fosdike
2 Kirk, B1, B2, Ablett, Buchanan
3 Williams, Goodes

Future 3s - and when I say future I hope in the next week or 2 :-) - McVeigh, Davis

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by sharp9

1 Mathews, Maxfield, Crouch, Bevan, Spriggs, Fosdike
2 Kirk, B1, B2, Ablett, Buchanan
3 Williams, Goodes

That works if you don't want any defending midfielders (except Kirk who can do both which is why he's All Australian). You could just about reverse that list for accountability on an opponent. Last year Adam Goodes cost us a lot of goals because he'd drift off his man to set up his own play. Crouch and Bevan have shown good ability to take a man out of the game - imagine if Goodes had been on Aker a few weeks ago!

And I'm unsure why the tide has suddenly turned against Mathews. Watching the Crows game again, Ben (while looking as clumsy as ever) actually stopped the Crows run (a feat few other Swans accomplished). Meanwhile, Leo (who is, so far, beyond criticism) gifted them a couple of goals. I also have hope for Spriggs but that's only from a few glimpses of talent. As yet, I don't cringe when I see the ball go his way.