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[midaro]

Originally posted by Nico
1. Why do so many people have Goodes tagged as a CHB? On this site many people gave him an absolute pizzling for his game on Riewolt in the 2004 semi.

That's not my recollection.

I thought he played the 'Labrador Retriever' role that so many people here insist would be his best position (eg. "Play him as a ruck rover", "Play him on the Wing", "Play him on a HBF", etc).

In that role in that game, he was tagged by Jason Blake and slaughtered - it's even mentioned in Blake's Bio, here:

http://saints.com.au/default.asp?pg=players&spg=playerprofile&personid=13478

Regarding Goodes, I hold these truths to be self-evident:
1. He is a ruckman.

2. If injury and changes to ruck rules, prevent him from playing as a ruckman, then we have already seen the best of Goodes.

3. His size makes him a KPP - yes, he is agile for a big man, but no, he can't compete with jockey sized elite midfielders when the ball is in dispute.

4. Eade tried Goodes as a forward. He was OK - not great.

5. Therefore he must be tried as a backman, which Roos has indicated.

6. If Goodes succeeds as a KPP backman - excellent.

7. If Goodes fails as a KPP backman - he will probably end up where Jason Saddington is right now - a utility and a mystery.

[liz]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG


Why am I seemingly the only one who demands that Goodes play on the ball.

err...you're not. It seems to be the preferred option of many RWO posters.

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by liz
err...you're not. It seems to be the preferred option of many RWO posters.

I think many RWO posters are on his ignore list.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
Why am I seemingly the only one who demands that Goodes play on the ball.

Dont know about Craig Bolton as a defensive midfield. But an interesting concept all the same. For Bolton to play up the ground we would have to have Heath James playing regularly and well deep in defense. I have serious doubts as to whether he is capable of this,both fitness and form-wise.

C Bolt did a reasonably good job against Hird last year.

I also don't think it naturally follows that James needs to play regularly in this case.

[dread and might]

Goodes has to play as a tall ruck rover. His Accountability in defence is bad to non-existent, as exposed on more than one occasion. He needs to become a headache for the opposition again.Make other coaches react to his play. I don't think his kicking for goal is a feature, especially from set shots.

I like the idea of Bolton as a defensive midfielder, he also seems to have a good kick for goal, and did a great job on riewoldt in rd 11...perhaps Dempster can be a long term replacement prospect down the back??

[Barry Schneider]

I admit I have wanted Goodes to play on the ball as a ruckrover type player since his knee injury.As third man up and playing loose in defence he is handy but it is obvious that he played his best football at ruck when his athleticism around the ground made him a headache for the lumberers he was up against.
I wonder if he there is a place for him as an around the ground ruckman without the centre bounce duties.On paper he could be listed as a forward pocket but he could line up on the square and takeover ruck duties when Doyle or Ball has taken the hitout.
Doyle or Ball could then trudge down to the forward pocket for a rest.
I can't see this happening since Jolly was drafted.
I suppose I posted this as I am worried we may have seen the best of Goodes and that Jolly hasn't impressed me,I hope I am wrong on both counts.

[Bas]

Originally posted by Matt79
Perhaps the article was written by a homesick Darren Gasper!

Lets hope Dyer'ere isn't really a bloke by the name of Terry Wallace!

Good article apart from a few things pointed out by others here.

[chammond]

Can't understand what all the fuss is about with Goodes?

Roos (and frequently Eade) generally uses him as a super-utility, and, aside from the centre bounces, presumably will continue to use him in the same way as previously . . . mostly as a key defender or around the ground ruckman, with occasional stints at full-forward and as a ruck-rover.

Roos has already used Goodes as a ruck-rover on a number of occasions, so that wouldn't be a revelation in the future. What will be interesting is where the emphasis will lie for this season. My feel is that if his knees come good, he'll spend most of his time in the follower role, at which he's probably the best in the league!

He'll never win a game off his own boot playing at CHB, but he's always a chance to do that if he gets an around-the-ground role.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by chammond
He'll never win a game off his own boot playing at CHB, but he's always a chance to do that if he gets an around-the-ground role.

and that in itself is the important issue and why many off us don't want Goodes used as a full time CHB.

[dimelb]

Originally posted by robbieando
and that in itself is the important issue and why many off us don't want Goodes used as a full time CHB.

Hear hear. As with so many others, Goodes for ruck rover, wing or generally floating menace.

[smasher]

I agree that Adam Goodes in full flight when ruck roving is a sight I love to see.We have to wait and see how fit he is but wouldn't it be a bonus for us if he could run around creating havoc like he did in 2003.

[midaro]

Originally posted by smasher
I agree that Adam Goodes in full flight when ruck roving is a sight I love to see.We have to wait and see how fit he is but wouldn't it be a bonus for us if he could run around creating havoc like he did in 2003.

Am I right saying that there are two different positions: ruckman and ruck-rover? (Although midfield positions - other than ruckman - don't really exist other than in name).

To the best of my knowledge Adam Goodes has never been a ruck-rover.
In 1999 he won a Rising Star award as a ruckman, because all our more experienced ruckman were injured.
2000-2002 Eade played him as a forward with declining returns - leading to such a form slump that he was mentioned here as possible trade-bait: Yes, it happened and not by me.
In 2003 he won a Brownlow as a ruckman.
In 2004 injury forced him out of the ruck. He had a so-so year at CHB.
In 2005 if he does not play ruck (because of injury, Ball/Doyle/Jolly, ruck law changes or Roos' preference) he's got to continue his development at CHB.

Are you people who insist that Goodes should play ruck-rover, suggesting that we should field a centre square set-up of:
Ball/Doyle/Jolly (Ruckman)
Goodes (Ruck-rover)
Kirk (Rover)
J Bolton (Centreman)

Seriously?

You believe Goodes is so good with the ball on the ground and in packs, that he is not only superior to regular ruckman (see 1999 & 2003) but also superior to the likes of Lappin, Black, Akermanis, Voss, West, Johnston, Brown, Buckley, Hayes, Goddard, Judd, Ball, Hodge, Camporeale and about 50 others? Because they will be his opponents - not some dionosaur who runs 100m in 20seconds.

Seriously?

[motorace_182]

Originally posted by midaro
You believe Goodes is so good with the ball on the ground and in packs, that he is not only superior to regular ruckman (see 1999 & 2003) but also superior to the likes of Lappin, Black, Akermanis, Voss, West, Johnston, Brown, Buckley, Hayes, Goddard, Judd, Ball, Hodge, Camporeale and about 50 others? Because they will be his opponents - not some dionosaur who runs 100m in 20seconds.

Seriously?

Yes. They will be his opponents...and how will they go around the ground when playing on him? Will they outmark him? Or will they put someone on that is as tall but cant match him aerobically? Noone in the comp can match him around the ground when he is fully fit. I personally believe he is best suited in the ruck, especially with new rucking rules etc As we saw in '03, especially vs Port, the way he leaps and hits the ground running providing an extra midfielder is awesome. Hes too tall for a tagger and too skilled for a tall KPP on him...

[swansrule100]

goodes would be awesome in the ruck roving position, running freely. He is quite fast, can mark and is athletic. Kouta played in the midfield succesfully and thats who goodes reminds me of

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by motorace_182
Yes. They will be his opponents...and how will they go around the ground when playing on him? Will they outmark him?

Probably not, but contested marks around the ground for midfielders are not that frequent in this possession-style era.

Or will they put someone on that is as tall but cant match him aerobically? Noone in the comp can match him around the ground when he is fully fit.

Pavlich. And there have been a couple of big guys who have managed to run around with him and stop him. Also, most big guys in the comp now, around 192-196cm are pretty mobile.

I personally believe he is best suited in the ruck, especially with new rucking rules

Can't see how the new ruck rules help him - he needs a bit more run up because of his size and he loses that.

Having said all that, I still think run him as a ruck rover in the square at CB, and then let him follow the ball around and leave the main ruckman to either wander up forward or down back after the centre bounce.