Kick Ins

[motorace_182]

What is our problem with these?? It seems everytime we get one the only free man we can find is sitting in the pocket, and he generally chips it back to the player kickin in. We arent able to work it like Essendon a few years ago, and Brissie, from one end to the other with ease. Our tall targets around 50 cant take a contested mark, its pretty pathetic.
What would be wrong with a huddle in the middle of the 50 to break the zone defence that teams like the Crows have murdered us with?
And then when it comes to us defending from an opposition kick in, we seem happy to let an easy kick to the 50 near the boundary. Do we have ANY strategies for these at EITHER end of the ground?!

[j s]

.....or the set play we tried (and almost succeeded with) in that game aganst Essendon where the umps crucified us. In the dying moments the kick was long and straight down the centre, the target player knocked the ball onwards to our runners.....

[mocaholic]

Kick Outs

IMO, there are really only two times when a set play can be orchestrated, viz:
a) Bounce down - however this is of often dubious quality given our umpiring stocks; and
b) The kickouts.

I reckon we fail miserably at this latter skill as has been recognised in a couple of other threads - our running it out of defence is so fraught with danger it gives me high blood pressure watching it. We must improve in this area as we were slaughtered there on Sunday.

What are our options?
a) Sideways kick between B2/Leapin/Tadhg. Sometimes this comes with the kick back across the goals to create space / clear option. Although I couldn't tell (wasn't at the game), every time there was a long camera shot, Ade set up free players on the wings to counter this. This is standard practice.
b) Walls' huddle. The group in the middle of the ground, blocking, pushing and protecting to create the free man on the burst. Then generally a long kick to a man on the run.
c) Kick to yourself, get a player to set a screen, run like the bejeezers and kick through the lines,
d) Kick the space trucker long first time, to the guts or thereabouts. At least you clear the danger zone immediately.

My thoughts are for a mix of b, c & d and ignoring a except as a last resort (rather than the first). Ideally, I'd like c or d, with the target to be a ruckman/tall first ie, Goodes, Jolley, Ball or LRT..or perhaps some even perhaps a midfielder/HB/HF who plays 'tall' such as Dempster / Saddo / Nicks / O'Keeffe. The next kick would be a dish off to a running mf who can kick (sigh! Here's where it breaks down), such as Willo, McV, Schneids, Kirk (good for 30m), Frosty McPherson, Kevin Dyson (oops) and then to Hall, Magic, Davis, etc.

I know it's not that simplistic, but for the life of me I just can't see the kick to the pocket doing us any good any more. Every team knows about it and basically uses it to put more forward pressure on us.

I guess were we're let down is our foot skills. We just don't seem to have a Chris Johnston, Dustin Fletcher et al.

Anyone any thoughts? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[mocaholic]

Originally posted by j s
.....or the set play we tried (and almost succeeded with) in that game aganst Essendon where the umps crucified us. In the dying moments the kick was long and straight down the centre, the target player knocked the ball onwards to our runners.....

Christ...bad timing here. See my thread, or could a mod merge the two?

[Benevolent Ert]

need more effective backline talls to properly implement d with any regular success

c might work a couple of times a quarter, but if it was a regular thing opposition sides would wise up to it pretty quickly

b only really works if the opposition are playing man on man - and if you tried it a couple of times they'd setup a zone instead pretty quickly

a is agonising to watch, but probably best suited to the cattle we have

To really be a contender we really need to unearth a couple of big solid bodied talls who can take a contested mark (and a midfielder who can break the lines and deliver into the forward 50 with pinpoint accuracy)

Until then we'll have to make do with what we've got (though we REALLY don't use the corridor enough)

[Benevolent Ert]

Another possible solution - get rid of the SCG

It's the only ground in the competition where a team can piss-fart around on the boundary line, and still get into the forward 50 relatively quickly

Try that on the MCG, and you'll get murdered every time (and guess which ground the business end of the season is on)

Playing 12 games a year on a ground where you can actually get away with that kind of football can only hurt us at the crunch time

[mocaholic]

Originally posted by Ert
need more effective backline talls to properly implement d with any regular success

c might work a couple of times a quarter, but if it was a regular thing opposition sides would wise up to it pretty quickly

b only really works if the opposition are playing man on man - and if you tried it a couple of times they'd setup a zone instead pretty quickly

a is agonising to watch, but probably best suited to the cattle we have

To really be a contender we really need to unearth a couple of big solid bodied talls who can take a contested mark (and a midfielder who can break the lines and deliver into the forward 50 with pinpoint accuracy)

Until then we'll have to make do with what we've got (though we REALLY don't use the corridor enough)

Agree. What did we say at the start of the season? A CHB and one (or two, if we were being greedy) midfielders a la Ball & Judd.

[dread and might]

Re: Kick Outs

Originally posted by mocaholic
I know it's not that simplistic, but for the life of me I just can't see the kick to the pocket doing us any good any more. Every team knows about it and basically uses it to put more forward pressure on us.

To be fair, we are not the only team who uses this strategy. Most zones conceede that possession and work hard to make sure thar's where the ball goes.

I wouldn't mind the huddle being used more, and/or the wizard cup rules allowing quick kick ins.

[Foreign Legion]

Dunno if anyone just saw Fox League Teams where they showed Josh Hunt from Geelong kicking in - beautiful stuff to watch!

Where are the "quick through the air" players at the Swans - here's a wild card - Schneider?????

Davis can be - you just don't want someone predictable - that you can read - this rules out Tadhg in my opinion.

Bring back Fred Goldsmith!

[liz]

Originally posted by Foreign Legion
Dunno if anyone just saw Fox League Teams where they showed Josh Hunt from Geelong kicking in - beautiful stuff to watch!

Where are the "quick through the air" players at the Swans - here's a wild card - Schneider?????

Davis can be - you just don't want someone predictable - that you can read - this rules out Tadhg in my opinion.

Bring back Fred Goldsmith!

Josh Hunt is one out of the bag. Few other teams have anyone who can kick that long from the kick-outs.

A couple of Swans who might be worth trying out are Dempster and Ablett. Dempster has already had a few gos and it's a big ask for him. I can't recall Nog ever doing kick-ins.

A bigger issue, though is the player to take the mark.

Ball is the best option - when fit - but the likes of Leo and B2 and decent one-on-one contested markers but not great in a pack.

Goodes' marking is one of his weakness, especially in a pack.

Jolly has looked a bit suspect in that department thus far this year.

Davis is a very clever mark but not that great overhead - his contested marks are achieved more by clever use of his body.

Ablett and B1 aren't bad marks for their size but it's a big ask for them to take pack marks consistently because they need some luck with the timing of a jump over the top. And Ablett kicking to Ablett might be a problem!

Saddo is a pretty good mark - an area of his game that he really improved the year before his injury problems started. Of course, he has to get into the team first.

[Thunder Shaker]

Originally posted by liz
Josh Hunt is one out of the bag. Few other teams have anyone who can kick that long from the kick-outs.

A shame we can't try a place kick from a kick out. It would make a good secret weapon, as the ball would clear the pack at D50 and land almost in the centre circle. Hello, runners.

[Foreign Legion]

Yes, the huddle is almost appealing again - obviously there would be a zone but still, at least our players would be on the move.

I have always wondered about a 60M bomb to the square at the SCG - in the centre and virtually the same as a ball up after a goal. Davis could put the ball there and the momentum of the ball would be our way - shhh shouldnt give it away...

[barry]

Ban Kennelly from ever kicking in. He's been doing it for 3 or 4 seasons now, and is still crap. Surely someone else can do it, and he can run off half back.

[dread and might]

Originally posted by liz
And Ablett kicking to Ablett might be a problem!

No we just need another one of those Abletts. Sounds a good candidate though

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by liz
Dempster has already had a few gos and it's a big ask for him.

Stick with him I say. Is also one of our quicker players, so the kick-to-self strategy would work too. From the little I've seen, may well be in the top 5 longest kicks in the team.

Leo ... decent one-on-one contested markers but not great in a pack.

Best packmark in the team by a mile. Best time to do it would be in the kick-ins, but it requires him to play a true HBF role which means permanently filling our KPP roles down back first