A happy club?

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by eirinn
I read an article by Neil Jameson last year, and a quote stood out when I read it, and it's sprung to mind more than a few time over the last few weeks.

"Now, those disenchanted with the major codes are pondering whether the plunge on professionalism is producing a generation of poorly mentored, socially stunted athletes trapped in a world of fart jokes, binge drinking and electronic games where the male instinct to remain forever-14 is indulged on a daily basis. Not so much heroes, as overpaid pests on the run from accountability. A harsh generalisation, perhaps, but, by mid-2004, you could have been excused for think that the NRL and AFL had been taken hostage by a bunch of delinquents."

(Neil Jameson, "Professional Foul" in "The Best Australian Sports Writing 2004" ed. Garrie Hutchinson, Melbourne: Black Inc., 2004. p. 203)

What a crock of ****.

Supporters are fully entitled to bag performances, but maybe you & Neil Jameson need to know that for every one player that's out getting pissed or treating women poorly, there's about 200 who are decent human beings and who don't deserve to be pigeon holed because of their occupation.

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by DST
Hi Eirinn,

There is no doubt that footballers get payed well but your comments above are niave and ill informed.

Having a brother in law who has played AFL for the last 9 years and a couple of best mates who continue to play at the highest level I can tell you that the commitment and courage displayed by the players along with the constant public scrutinity means these players earn every cent they currently receive.

You see the players for 2 & 1/2 hours a week and know nothing of the scarifices they make physcially & socially to ensure they get themselves on the park week in and out in order to help their mates out.

My brother in law went through 3 shoulder reconstructions and two broken jaws (each time feeding himself through a straw for weeks on end and still trying to retain fitness while wired) to get himself out on the ground to do what he loved and to be with his team mates. Both of my friends have been through knee reconstructions and the months of rehab to get themselves back on the park.

I would hope on reflection you look at your above comments and retract them as they really are so far from reality it's not funny and nothing more than an insult.

DST

LMFAO.

Get a sense of perspective. They get paid a @@@@ load because of the value of their product to a national audience of TV watchers. Sure they make sacrifices, but so did Fred Hollows. I don't begrudge them what they get paid, good luck to them: it's a short career. But whether or not they 'earn' it is another question entirely. The television market determines the amount available for player payments. The best then get that share proportional to their perceived value. They have to work hard within that group to get in, to stay there, and fight their way to the top, sure. But whether or not they are 'worth' what they earn is another matter entirely. Tom Cruise will you he works hard too, poor bugger...

[OldE]

I certainly have considered the amount of work required by footballers. In reality, it is no different from any person with a half-way difficult job. I work 35hours a week on top of full time uni. I'm not complaining- I clearly still have the time to post here- but that requires sacrifices too. Most adults have to make sacrifices.

I think it's a problem with professional sport and one that isn't addressed enough by the administration. And I think it's something that could possibly negativelly effect the team.

Jameson's article expresses this far better than I could- it's worth a read before deciding that I am absolutely wrong. It was in Inside Sport in September 2004, and definitely addresses the problem with far greater consideration than I could offer in a few poorly-worded posts.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by eirinn
I just wish footballers in general- not just at the Swans- would acknowledge the fact they are damn lucky to get paid a ridiculously large amount of money to play a game. And that maybe there are things more important in life than football.

Firstly you say they're lucky to be paid such huge amounts of money which you don't think they appreciate. Then you say they should realise there's more imortant things in life other than what they're getting paid the huge amount of money to do.

How does that make sense?

[DST]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
LMFAO.

Get a sense of perspective. They get paid a @@@@ load because of the value of their product to a national audience of TV watchers. Sure they make sacrifices, but so did Fred Hollows. I don't begrudge them what they get paid, good luck to them: it's a short career. But whether or not they 'earn' it is another question entirely. The television market determines the amount available for player payments. The best then get that share proportional to their perceived value. They have to work hard within that group to get in, to stay there, and fight their way to the top, sure. But whether or not they are 'worth' what they earn is another matter entirely. Tom Cruise will you he works hard too, poor bugger...

Your arguement about TV setting the price is irrelevant.

If you asked every player in the AFL whether they would continue to make the same scarifices to play the game for little or no reward, the answer from every single one of them would be yes.

They are paid well as a by product, they play for the love of the game and the mateship that comes with playing in a team, just the same as the battlers like us who pull on the boots in suburban footy each week.

DST

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by DST
Your arguement about TV setting the price is irrelevant.

If you asked every player in the AFL whether they would continue to make the same scarifices to play the game for little or no reward, the answer from every single one of them would be yes.

They are paid well as a by product, they play for the love of the game and the mateship that comes with playing in a team, just the same as the battlers like us who pull on the boots in suburban footy each week.

DST

But that's not what you said the first time.

I can tell you that the commitment and courage displayed by the players along with the constant public scrutinity means these players earn every cent they currently receive.

I find it hard to reply to your intended future posts.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by DST


If you asked every player in the AFL whether they would continue to make the same scarifices to play the game for little or no reward, the answer from every single one of them would be yes.

That's going a bit far.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by footyhead
This is all delusion. How many of the team do you actually know?
Calling into question the teams moral ethics cos they are plying badly is rediculous. Get a life.
Better still get a religion.

Footyhead calling others on RWO delusional.
Pot calling the kettle black, if i ever saw it, don't you think.

Honestly, I think the players are way way way too spoilt with the anonomity that being an AFL footballer in Sydney provides.They earn their big bucks and are just not scrutinised like teams and players are in Melbourne. They are neither used to media or supporter criticism and scrunity. And sadly under Roos (at least to my highly subjective opinion) they appear to have this "boys club mentality" You go into the club offices and see a player. Often they will give you a look as if to say "who are you? What the hell do you want? What are you doing in OUR territory?"

They give the impression that theyare accountable to noone except themselves. Beaussie said he saw them in a pub the other week after an embarrassing loss. He said they gave the impression they neither cared about the loss, nor were hurting about it. I hope this is not the case. But fear it is, I'm afraid.

Now that Jeff Wells has retired, there is not one journalist worth their salt in the Sydney media to actually have the knowledge nor balls to dare make critical articles about individual players or the team as a whole. It is all wishy washy stuff that reeks of crawling at times. So much so that some of it may well be passed off as advertorials. Tadgh is playing his worst footy since coming to Australia. Yet you see a double-page cushy spread on how he spent a day at the football.

JF

[OldE]

Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
Firstly you say they're lucky to be paid such huge amounts of money which you don't think they appreciate. Then you say they should realise there's more imortant things in life other than what they're getting paid the huge amount of money to do.

How does that make sense?

Not a non-sequiter at all. In fact, I fail to see the contradiction. I simply think they need to acknowlege that a) they're pretty lucky to get where they are- all they really needed was to fall the wrong way one, or be good at a different, non-professional sport, or be female, and they wouldn't have they chances they've had and b) that, ultimately, it is a game, it is ephemeral, and it isn't going to change the world. I can understand someone giving up their lives to help less fortunate others feeling pretty good about themselves. Accepting a big paycheck to play a game? Not really worthy of the arrogance it inspires.

If they were doing it "for the love of the game" and for "mateship", then full credit to them. When they do, I'll shut up and stop suggesting that things need to change. Somehow, I don't think it's likely

[BAM_BAM]

Originally posted by eirinn
I certainly have considered the amount of work required by footballers. In reality, it is no different from any person with a half-way difficult job. I work 35hours a week on top of full time uni. I'm not complaining- I clearly still have the time to post here- but that requires sacrifices too. Most adults have to make sacrifices.

you're being attacked for your comments here because you are generalising.

I also am paid to work a 35 hour week, I go out after work and drink, sometimes too much, I also have excess cash to go and spend how I like and I also come on here and make an ass out of myself sometimes.

I don't have to come home and ice my hands or legs or have injections to help get over my working week. I don't worry about how long I can continue to work in my current (which I love). I'm also not ridiculed by people who have no idea what stress I undergo doing my job when I make an error. I'm also not put on a pedestal only be cut back down again.

I'm not tall and thank god my name's not Poppy!

[DST]

Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
That's going a bit far.

I don't want to turn this into a Sydney v Melbourne culture debate, but I really don't think you Sydneysiders understand the culture of grass roots footy in Melbourne, Adelaide & Perth.

Every single one of the players if they were not playing at AFL standard would be still playing football at local level somewhere as it is the game that attracts them not the money!

Sure you can now make a decent living for 12 years, but that is all a by product of actually playing a game they love.

DST

[DST]

Originally posted by eirinn
Not a non-sequiter at all. In fact, I fail to see the contradiction. I simply think they need to acknowlege that a) they're pretty lucky to get where they are- all they really needed was to fall the wrong way one, or be good at a different, non-professional sport, or be female, and they wouldn't have they chances they've had and b) that, ultimately, it is a game, it is ephemeral, and it isn't going to change the world. I can understand someone giving up their lives to help less fortunate others feeling pretty good about themselves. Accepting a big paycheck to play a game? Not really worthy of the arrogance it inspires.

If they were doing it "for the love of the game" and for "mateship", then full credit to them. When they do, I'll shut up and stop suggesting that things need to change. Somehow, I don't think it's likely

Every single one of them know their lucky, for christ sake they are earning a living doing something they love.

How many other people can say that?

DST

[BAM_BAM]

Originally posted by eirinn
b) that, ultimately, it is a game, it is ephemeral, and it isn't going to change the world. I can understand someone giving up their lives to help less fortunate others feeling pretty good about themselves. Accepting a big paycheck to play a game? Not really worthy of the arrogance it inspires.

again a generalisation, what about those who constantly use their profile and their time away from the club to visit hospitals and others in need. Oh yes Shauble was mentioned by someone. Only one player in how many???? I don't think so.

For these players these visits are often during their own time and not as a club organised venture.

[BAM_BAM]

Originally posted by DST
I don't want to turn this into a Sydney v Melbourne culture debate, but I really don't think you Sydneysiders understand the culture of grass roots footy in Melbourne, Adelaide & Perth.

Every single one of the players if they were not playing at AFL standard would be still playing football at local level somewhere as it is the game that attracts them not the money!

Sure you can now make a decent living for 12 years, but that is all a by product of actually playing a game they love.

DST

just for your info Ruda's a Melbourne Girl DST

[OldE]

This has nothing to do with tall poppies.

And it is neccessarily a generalisation- that is what a culture is- a general trend. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I'm trying to address a trend. I never claimed that this is a universal condition- just one that does exist and could possibly have an impact on the Swans, just as it could on any other club.

It's about the negative side-efffects of professionalism- players with too much money and time on their hands, players with few role models, and little experiende of the world outside the football bubble. A world of minimal responsibility.

Another Jameson quote:

"For decades now, all of us- media, fans, player agents, club officials, sponsors- have been stroking player egos and lining their pockets, making the more impressionable among them believe the sun rises out of their arses on a daily basis.... We should have all paid better attention to (Wayne) Carey's betrayed spouse. Turning on her husband's long-time manager and player agent, she cried "You're to blame for this. You're to blame, the club's to blame; we're all at fault. We never said to to him. We let him think he could get away with everything." " (p. 211)

I think this is an issue our club may need to address.