Goalkicking.

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  • Barry Schneider
    On the Rookie List
    • Sep 2003
    • 530

    Goalkicking.

    Our accuracy has been terrible.I heard somewhere we are the most inaccurate team in the comp.
    Can anyone confirm with hard facts Robert Walls' explanation that we take most of our shots for goal from acute angles due to the forwards leading to the pocket.
    Barry Hall seems to be getting the hard ones but fluffing the easy ones.
    Against Adelaide we missed a series of gettable almost gimme's.
    Walls theory sounds plausible but until evidence to the contrary I think our forwards are missing shots that they were getting in previous years.
  • NMWBloods
    Taking Refuge!!
    • Jan 2003
    • 15819

    #2
    I had a bit of a look through the some data and many of our shots at goals were from 45deg or more and 40m or more.
    Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

    "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

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    • sharpie
      On the Rookie List
      • Jul 2003
      • 1588

      #3
      check out the score sheet from the live scores thingy on the afl website for our match against the eagles. we scored goals from all our shots within 40m that had an angle of less than 45 degrees. we missed the rest. Too many of our shots are coming from hard angles
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      • liz
        Veteran
        Site Admin
        • Jan 2003
        • 16778

        #4
        Originally posted by sharpie
        check out the score sheet from the live scores thingy on the afl website for our match against the eagles. we scored goals from all our shots within 40m that had an angle of less than 45 degrees. we missed the rest. Too many of our shots are coming from hard angles
        AFL players should still kick those goals as often as they miss them, especially from within fairly close range. There were 3 eminently gettable on-the-run shots (Goodes, Davis?, LRT) plus the poster from O'Loughlin, all in the first quarter, which weren't impossible for a team in "goal kicking form". We would probably still have been run over by the Eagles but to have even had 3 goals on the board at the end of the first quarter might have given the team a bit of confidence that they could at least be competitive after having the better of the play all around the ground in that opening term.

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        • Slick Swans
          On the Rookie List
          • May 2003
          • 207

          #5
          Goalkicking had definatly been one of our greatest downfalls, just look at the stats from our loses so far:

          Vs Kangaroos 7.17 59
          Vs Adelaide 11.13 79
          Vs Melbourne 11.18 60
          Vs West Coast 8.11 59

          And notice the difference in our wins

          Vs Hawthorn 18 .10 118
          Vs Brisbane 13 .9 81


          In all the games we have kicked more goals than behind we have won, and all the games we have kicked ore points then goals have lost.

          And i dare say that if we had kicked as straight as our opponants we would have beat the kangaroos and melbourne. Then no-one would be whinging about how bad out midfield is at 4-2
          "Red and White for blood cells, Red and White for wine."
          "They could be the whole damn spectrum, if you just damn let them"

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          • ugg
            Can you feel it?
            Site Admin
            • Jan 2003
            • 15970

            #6
            Originally posted by NMWBloods
            I had a bit of a look through the some data and many of our shots at goals were from 45deg or more and 40m or more.
            But how does this compare to the last 2 seasons? Are we just missing more from the same kind of positions that we have been more accurate with in the past?
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            • punter257
              Deadliest Left Boot
              • Aug 2004
              • 1660

              #7
              its all to do with the way we are playing (not good obviously) and confidence. go up the guts!

              it sounds easy to do but we just need some confidence and something to click really.

              2 years ago davis, hall and schneider didnt miss and this year is totally different
              Roosy = LEGEND

              Comment

              • BonBon
                BMT2144
                • Jul 2004
                • 2190

                #8
                Goalkicking.. something we struggle to do.
                Vicky Pollard: Oh my god I so can't believe you just said that this is like the time I threw Anita's nokia in the canal as a joke and she's like you have well got to buy me another one and I'm like get over it and then Paul came over who's adopted anyway and started saying that I fancy Mark Bennett but oh my god just because I have sex with someone doesn't mean I fancy them.

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                • cruiser
                  What the frack!
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 6114

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Slick Swans
                  Goalkicking had definatly been one of our greatest downfalls, just look at the stats from our loses so far:

                  Vs Kangaroos 7.17 59
                  Vs Adelaide 11.13 79
                  Vs Melbourne 11.18 60
                  Vs West Coast 8.11 59
                  vs Melbourne was 7.18 not 11.18.
                  Our goalkicing is woeful. So is our leading if our forwards are leading into difficult angles that they cannot convert.
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                  I don't eat animals since discovering this ability. I used to. But one day the lamb I was eating came through to me and ever since then I haven't been able to eat meat.
                  - animal psychic Amanda de Warren

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                  • motorace_182
                    On the Rookie List
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 961

                    #10
                    The forwards have no excuses to miss. They determine where the ball will end up by demanding it on a lead. If they lead to the wings, thats their fault for not playing a hole large enough infront of goal. You always want a few to lead to a pocket if the balls coming in from the wing, enabling someone like Hall to lead up the centre or thereabouts.
                    Yeah you can blame the midfield for crap delivery, but we should have guys playing at Hall and Magics feet to crumb a ball off a bad kick. If the kicks are high quality, then you dont need a crumber cos you will be hittin a leading target on the tits. If the kicks are poor, cause a contest, spillage, and CRUMB!
                    Also, they should not be missing with a % that large, regardless of the angle. It has to be completely mental to be missing set shots from 40m on a slight angle. If they were in a pocket on a tightish angle with a real difficult shot, fair enough. But at that level they should be nailing them from anywhere, 90% of the time.
                    - Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in a world they've been given, than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact, it's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration, it's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing!

                    Comment

                    • Sanecow
                      Suspended by the MRP
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 6917

                      #11
                      Originally posted by motorace_182
                      The forwards have no excuses to miss. They determine where the ball will end up by demanding it on a lead. If they lead to the wings, thats their fault for not playing a hole large enough infront of goal.
                      Surely the forwards have been instructed to play the way they are playing? I don't wholly blame them for the results.

                      Comment

                      • cruiser
                        What the frack!
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 6114

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Sanecow
                        Surely the forwards have been instructed to play the way they are playing? I don't wholly blame them for the results.
                        Surely the losing results posted above say it all. 33.59 in four games is disgraceful. That's an average of approximately 8.15 in each of those games. Its unacceptable.
                        Occupational hazards:
                        I don't eat animals since discovering this ability. I used to. But one day the lamb I was eating came through to me and ever since then I haven't been able to eat meat.
                        - animal psychic Amanda de Warren

                        Comment

                        • motorace_182
                          On the Rookie List
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 961

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sanecow
                          Surely the forwards have been instructed to play the way they are playing? I don't wholly blame them for the results.
                          If they do lead to the flanks and pockets, theys hould still be hitting the targets from out there. They know where they will be receiving the ball, if they dont want to kick from there, lead somewhere else.
                          Also the guys are old enough now and professional, so they will/can question decisions made by the coaching staff to better performance. Its pretty simple mate, if you cant kick from where you lead, dont lead there.
                          - Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in a world they've been given, than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact, it's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration, it's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing!

                          Comment

                          • NMWBloods
                            Taking Refuge!!
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 15819

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ugg
                            But how does this compare to the last 2 seasons? Are we just missing more from the same kind of positions that we have been more accurate with in the past?
                            I don't have good comparable data. In terms of angles though, I know that 57% of our shots in 2003 were within 45deg and this year it appears to be maybe half.

                            For argument's sake, let's assume it is 53% this year, which is 4% less than 2003. If we take 25 shots at goal per game and that extra 4% is always assumed to be a miss, this will be 1 extra miss per game.

                            Therefore, instead of say 14-11 per game you would instead kick 13-12. This would see the conversion drop from a very good 56% to an average 52%. It would have the effect of a difference of 110 points in scoring for the year overall, which could mean one extra win (and very possibly 2 or 3) and 5% extra on percentage.

                            An extra win and 5% would mean the difference between:
                            - St Kilda finishing 1st instead of 3rd in 2004
                            - Fremantle making instead of missing finals in 2004
                            - Essendon finishing 4th instead of 8th in 2003
                            etc

                            Currently our conversion accuracy is 45%. I believe that by the end of the H&A season we can get our conversion back up to say 52%-53%, below average but more reasonable. I think our forwards are too talented to continue to kick that badly.

                            As I've said before a few times, I'm still confident we will see a major turnaround in form during the season. This improvement in form will be a major factor in improving our conversion accuracy, both as cause and effect. Given our good run over the next 7 games this is when we could see it. I've experienced enough sport to know how possible it is to see major changes in confidence and momentum and what that can do for a team. Additionally, although I've been a bit disappointed with Roos' performance thus far this season, I believe Roos can still make a difference and produce some key changes.

                            However, I do have worries and frustrations. I hope that the turnaround will see us a play good entertaining football, but I worry that we will win games mainly through the boring, grinding approach.

                            For the people who say who cares how they play as long as they win, what would you say if we scored 1 point in the first minute, and then hung onto that lead for the entire game by simply crowding 18 players around the ball and locking it down, and winning 0.1.1 - 0.0.0. It's a win but certainly not worth watching.

                            The frustration is that as equally confident I am of us improving in form, I can see that form being just as likely to evaporate again. For whatever reason, official or unoffical, conscious or subsconscious, our goal seems to be to make finals not win them. So often when we get to finals we collapse in a heap and are comfortably bundled out of them.

                            2004 - Wk 2, lost to St Kilda 51 points
                            2003 - Wk 3, lost to Brisbane 44 points
                            2001 - Wk 1, lost to Hawthorn 55 points
                            1999 - Wk 1, lost to Essendon 69 points
                            1998 - Wk 3, lost to Adelaide 27 points
                            1997 - Wk 1, lost to WBulldogs 35 points
                            1996 - Wk 4, lost to Kangaroos 43 points
                            1987 - Wk 2, lost to Melbourne 76 points
                            1986 - Wk 2, lost to Fitzroy 5 points
                            1977 - Wk 1, lost to Richmond 34 points
                            1970 - Wk 1, lost to St Kilda 53 points

                            Since the war, we have made finals these 11 times for 5 wins and 13 losses.
                            Our wins have been margins of 41, 12, 2, 6, 1.
                            Our losses have been margins of 51, 44, 55, 68, 27, 35, 43, 76, 99, 16, 5, 34, 53.
                            Average winning margin - 12 points.
                            Average losing margin - 47 points.
                            Seems to support the above assertion.

                            I have strayed a lot from the original topic, however my thoughts flowed from the fall in conversion, why I think it will improve, but why I'm not sure if it really matters.
                            Last edited by NMWBloods; 3 May 2005, 09:41 AM.
                            Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                            "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                            Comment

                            • NMWBloods
                              Taking Refuge!!
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 15819

                              #15
                              Originally posted by motorace_182
                              If they do lead to the flanks and pockets, theys hould still be hitting the targets from out there. They know where they will be receiving the ball, if they dont want to kick from there, lead somewhere else.
                              Also the guys are old enough now and professional, so they will/can question decisions made by the coaching staff to better performance. Its pretty simple mate, if you cant kick from where you lead, dont lead there.
                              Often you need to lead to where there is space and where the midfield is heading to or coming from.

                              It's not necessarily the forwards who are totally or primarily at fault.
                              Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                              "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                              Comment

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