Vogels to CHB

**ScottH** · 25 May 2005, 06:49 AM

Not a bad idea. Maybe give him a few more games in the Fwds, to cement his spot in the team, as he is still no a certain started when we have a fully fit squad. then give him a go and see what happens.

**Captain** · 25 May 2005, 08:15 AM

I knew someone was going to come up with this idea.

Leave the kid where he is, let him kick some goals and develop his game.

I'm sick of people writing LRT off. He is a young, inexperienced player trying to hold down a key position. Give him time FFS.

**liz** · 25 May 2005, 08:40 AM

Have we not been crying out for another tall target down forward too? We find someone who can perform that role and now you want to move him?

**timthefish** · 25 May 2005, 08:56 AM

Re: Vogels to CHB

Originally posted by Schneiderman

I think we should put Vogels at CHB. Now.
\

it is way to early to put him in as a regular pivot. he must be given time to develop without too much pressure or expectation. as good as he may become, he'll have weak aspects of his game now that experienced coaches and players will pick up on if he's given too much exposure. then they'll destroy him.

**barry** · 25 May 2005, 09:37 AM

Schniederman, you my friend, are a LRT hater.

Only the twisted bitter mind filled with vengful hate would contemplate moving a young player who is performing, and needed on the forward line, to the backline to oust a player who is holding his own, but you dont like.

**mocaholic** · 25 May 2005, 09:48 AM

Re: Vogels to CHB

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Its probably because of the hour of day BUT...

I think we should put Vogels at CHB. Now.

There. I've said it. barry will be outraged, but the rest of us are realistic enough to realise that LuRTch will never be a dominating CHB. Ever. No?

So who will be the next Roos. Or at least come close.

Vogels.

The kid has an uncanny knack of marking the ball. And kicking it well. Long. Straight. To a target. LuRTch cant. And I just watched a replay as I type. LuRTch gathered a good mark. And then lobbed it between four Bullldogs players. Another opportunity lost.

Whose with me? We have enough forwards already, and its not like a CHB cant float down to kick a goal or two (damn you Leppitsch!).

FFS we finally have a KP forward with a confident goal-kicking action and you want to put him in the backline? Yes it's important to have a good CHB but we want to kick goals. If we can develop Vogels to the point where he IS a CHF (and it's still VERY early days yet), it would be great for us as it would even give us flexibility to play BBBBHall at CHB. What about them apples? A great target for Dempster kicking in, with LRT as a foil/decoy or a secondary target.

***NMWBloods*** · 25 May 2005, 09:54 AM

Hall would be wasted at CHB. Terrible kick in target too - he's not a great overhead mark - his hands just aren't that sure.

I think Vogels will make a great CHB, however currently I would stick with him getting comfortable with senior football in the forward line. However, given he has played his earlier footy in all sorts of positions, if he can make it at AFL level I don't think the particular position will be a worry for him.

There was an interesting moment in the back line (last qtr I think). Mathews had the ball and was running toward the pocket. Was approached by an opponent and needed to give off a handball. Only Vogels was there and Mathews didn't want to give him the ball, so he circled back around. However, he still had no one to give the ball to so eventually had to give it to Vogels. The young lad calmly received the ball, looked up field, took a few steps and then delivered it superbly to J Bolton on the edge of the centre square. It was one of the best kicks out of defence by anyone in our side for as long as I can remember.

**Sean** · 25 May 2005, 10:01 AM

Re: Vogels to CHB

Originally posted by Schneiderman
There. I've said it. barry will be outraged, but the rest of us are realistic enough to realise that LuRTch will never be a dominating CHB. Ever. No?

Remember back to when Leo was 21 - did you think he would become one of the best defenders in the AFL? Even more surprisingly a KPP defender? What about Kirk? When you saw him as a 21 year old did you think he would become an AA midfielder?

I agree that LRT probably will not become a dominating CHB in the Leppitsch mold but he can become a Wakelin/Presti type player - they've played in GFs too.

The kid has an uncanny knack of marking the ball. And kicking it well. Long. Straight. To a target. LuRTch cant. And I just watched a replay as I type. LuRTch gathered a good mark. And then lobbed it between four Bullldogs players. Another opportunity lost.

Now watch the replay of the kick to Mickey again. If you only focus on the mistakes then he is a shocking player. His problem is not skills - like many of our younger players his decision making is terrible and he panics.

Vogels seems to have very good skills and his decision making is good. An uncanny knack of marking the ball is a bit over the top - he's a good mark at this point and could be very good.

Why do all LRT or Vogels threads become a competition between the two? They can both stay in the team.

**Guzzitza** · 25 May 2005, 10:05 AM

circling around avoiding targets is what benny does best!

i dont think its time to move vogels yet, give him a chance! we may have a lot of forwards at the moment, but theya re not performing - why remove one who is at such an early stage? we dont have a problem keeping teams to low scores, we have a problem scoring!
the opposition gets low scores against us, im sure a stat guru around here can throw some up for us.
if we can continue defending the way we are, but have a full functional forward line - we could do some serious damage.

**Sean** · 25 May 2005, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by NMWBloods
There was an interesting moment in the back line (last qtr I think). Mathews had the ball and was running toward the pocket. Was approached by an opponent and needed to give off a handball. Only Vogels was there and Mathews didn't want to give him the ball, so he circled back around. However, he still had no one to give the ball to so eventually had to give it to Vogels. The young lad calmly received the ball, looked up field, took a few steps and then delivered it superbly to J Bolton on the edge of the centre square. It was one of the best kicks out of defence by anyone in our side for as long as I can remember.

Yep, great kick. There was another time when he had the ball in defence and hit his target on the chest as well.

If we were to move him back then I'd rather it was so we could move Tadhg into the midfield. We still have a relatively short backline so he wouldn't have to replace one of the existing KPPs.

**ROK Lobster** · 25 May 2005, 10:10 AM

Re: Re: Vogels to CHB

Originally posted by Sean
His problem is not skills - like many of our younger players his decision making is terrible and he panics.

I think his skills are ok. I think his decision making is very bad, though at times it seems as though it is getting better. I thnk his fundamental problem is an inabiliy to read the game and hence his tendency to get lost. I have not been able to get to many games so far this year but on the tele he often seems to be late to contests but also not able to work out where it is going to end up next. He seems to follow they play a lot - like a kid learning the game. This is one area that i do not think he has improved and the area that I see as his major weakness.

**Sean** · 25 May 2005, 10:23 AM

Re: Re: Re: Vogels to CHB

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
I think his skills are ok. I think his decision making is very bad, though at times it seems as though it is getting better. I thnk his fundamental problem is an inabiliy to read the game and hence his tendency to get lost. I have not been able to get to many games so far this year but on the tele he often seems to be late to contests but also not able to work out where it is going to end up next. He seems to follow they play a lot - like a kid learning the game. This is one area that i do not think he has improved and the area that I see as his major weakness.

I've said in other threads that I think his defensive work is OK but what you have said here is a fair criticism. The Hahn goal on Sunday was a good example - he was too busy chasing the ball to keep an eye on his opponent. When Hahn popped up with the ball I think LRT was actually on the opposite side of the pack.

In terms of being late to contests you are probably right but I think he disguises it because he is quite quick and makes up a lot of ground just as the ball arrives. Something else for him to keep working on.

**Sanecow** · 25 May 2005, 10:30 AM

I wish he would niggle and retard his opponent's approach to the ball occasionally. On the W/E he was standing off his man and kept looking over his shoulder to see where he was. If you have hold of him you know where he is. I would tell him to grab a fistfull of jumper (or leg hair) (on the side of his man away from the umpire if he's nervous) and punch him in the head if he can't stop the mark. These are two defensive fundamentals that LRT will never read in the Auskick skills book he allegedly studies before lights out.

It's not that I hate him: just read the sig:

**silent lurker** · 25 May 2005, 10:32 AM

I believe that Vogels was recruited as a player who could possibly fill key positions at both ends of the field, and if somebody like Heath Grundy steps up as a key forward, we may well see Luke playing up back some time in the future, potentially as a long term replacement for Schauble when he retires.

Vogels to CHB

Vogels to CHB

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