Vogels to CHB

[mocaholic]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Hall would be wasted at CHB. Terrible kick in target too - he's not a great overhead mark - his hands just aren't that sure.

The days of kicking long to a pack have gone though. And let's face it, we were spoilt with Dunkers who would either mark (one grab) or make a contest everytime. Must say I was impressed on Sun with huddles and breakaways from the kickouts - several times Goodes got the ball in a clear patch, >50m line. Unheard of for us. Great delivery and strategy.

Hall as a leading target for the kick-in would be great imo. And I reckon his hands are OK. It won't be for every kick in either. Either way, it's better to have Hall as a target arouond the 50m than to go sideways to Ben Mathews 20m from the goalsquare.

If Grundy comes good, the more the merrier. But let's wait for Vogels to come good first.

[barry]

Originally posted by silent lurker
I believe that Vogels was recruited as a player who can fill a key position as both ends of the field, and if somebody like Heath Grundy steps up as a key forward, we may well see Luke playing up back some time in the future, potentially as a long term replacement for Schauble when he retires.

LV was recruited as a wild speculative pick as someone who can add depth to our list and pop up now and again in the seniors.
He's justified that, and anything more is a bonus.

LRT was recruited as an gun athelete who can be transfored into a footballer. He has a longer term transition into an AFL footballer, but expectations are that eventually he will be a key position player. At the moment he is holding his place in the team as a KPP and performing a job. All that can be expected at this stage of his development.

They are very different players with very different agendas. And obviously different expectations. These expectations, I suspect, is why one is judged more harshly than the other.

[Newbie]

A year or two ago, J Bolton and L Ablett were on the receiving end of many braggings around here. Now we are seeing this with LRT. I predict that two more years down the track once LRT is established, they would move to the next up-and-coming kid. It is pretty unbelievable really. And it is often coming out of the same mob. Sometimes, I wonder if people could learn at all. The experience with L Ablett and J Bolton should have been enough for people to have a different attitude with the developing players. Weakneses could be iron out but the outstanding attributes that diffirentiate a good player from a honest one. J Bolton for his work ethics, Ablett size and skill. LRT attribute combo (size, physical, athelitism) is pretty impressive and rare. As long as he knuckles down and works on his game, he will be sucessful. Non-constructive criticisms serve no purpose whatsoever.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Newbie
Non-constructive criticisms serve no purpose whatsoever.

To be realistic, neither do constructive criticisms. We aren't the coaching staff, we are just chewing the fat.

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by Newbie
Non-constructive criticisms serve no purpose whatsoever.

What about constructive ones?

FWIW Bolton and Ablett are so different to LRT it really is pointless comparing their developments.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Newbie
A year or two ago, J Bolton and L Ablett were on the receiving end of many braggings around here. Now we are seeing this with LRT. I predict that two more years down the track once LRT is established, they would move to the next up-and-coming kid. It is pretty unbelievable really. And it is often coming out of the same mob.

It's pretty common with supporters of most clubs. Just look at Essendon & Henneman.

Three weeks ago some people were calling for Roos to be sacked - if we win on the weekend we'll be thinking about the top 4. It's the nature of the footy supporting beast. I actually find it quite entertaining - especially now that I've stopped lurking and can throw in my more positive $0.02.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by mocaholic
The days of kicking long to a pack have gone though. And let's face it, we were spoilt with Dunkers who would either mark (one grab) or make a contest everytime.

I've seen other teams do it. It's not that they do it every time, it's simply another option and it keeps the opposition honest. With us it's generally the same thing every time.

Must say I was impressed on Sun with huddles and breakaways from the kickouts - several times Goodes got the ball in a clear patch, >50m line. Unheard of for us. Great delivery and strategy.

'Dogs ran a very thin zone defence - was rather easy to penetrate.

Hall as a leading target for the kick-in would be great imo. And I reckon his hands are OK. It won't be for every kick in either. Either way, it's better to have Hall as a target arouond the 50m than to go sideways to Ben Mathews 20m from the goalsquare.

You don't get many leads at D50 like you do in the forward line. I think Hall's biggest weakness is overhead marking.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Newbie
A year or two ago, J Bolton and L Ablett were on the receiving end of many braggings around here. Now we are seeing this with LRT. I predict that two more years down the track once LRT is established, they would move to the next up-and-coming kid. It is pretty unbelievable really. And it is often coming out of the same mob. Sometimes, I wonder if people could learn at all. The experience with L Ablett and J Bolton should have been enough for people to have a different attitude with the developing players.

Of course there are also all the players who were bagged and failed to develop or the ones on whom a lot of hopes were pinned and failed to develop. There are all sorts and different outcomes, so unless you are a soothsayer, it's unlikely that anyone at all will learn enough to know for sure whether players who do not look outstanding to start with are going to make it.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Sean
Three weeks ago some people were calling for Roos to be sacked

In future, when recounting extreme attitudes on RWO, I request that posters write "Bon Bon" or "Footyhead" instead of "some people".

[Nico]

Re: Vogels to CHB

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Its probably because of the hour of day BUT...

I think we should put Vogels at CHB. Now.

There. I've said it. barry will be outraged, but the rest of us are realistic enough to realise that LuRTch will never be a dominating CHB. Ever. No?

So who will be the next Roos. Or at least come close.

Vogels.

The kid has an uncanny knack of marking the ball. And kicking it well. Long. Straight. To a target. LuRTch cant. And I just watched a replay as I type. LuRTch gathered a good mark. And then lobbed it between four Bullldogs players. Another opportunity lost.

Whose with me? We have enough forwards already, and its not like a CHB cant float down to kick a goal or two (damn you Leppitsch!).

Yes, but our forwards aren't kicking enough goals. Take his 3 out of last week's total and that = 10. Another option up forward really stretches the opposition backs. If Vogels goes on with it we might start kicking 15+ goals regularly.

[Nico]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Hall would be wasted at CHB. Terrible kick in target too - he's not a great overhead mark - his hands just aren't that sure.

I think Vogels will make a great CHB, however currently I would stick with him getting comfortable with senior football in the forward line. However, given he has played his earlier footy in all sorts of positions, if he can make it at AFL level I don't think the particular position will be a worry for him.

There was an interesting moment in the back line (last qtr I think). Mathews had the ball and was running toward the pocket. Was approached by an opponent and needed to give off a handball. Only Vogels was there and Mathews didn't want to give him the ball, so he circled back around. However, he still had no one to give the ball to so eventually had to give it to Vogels. The young lad calmly received the ball, looked up field, took a few steps and then delivered it superbly to J Bolton on the edge of the centre square. It was one of the best kicks out of defence by anyone in our side for as long as I can remember.

That tells you something about one of our leadership group.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Sean
It's pretty common with supporters of most clubs. Just look at Essendon & Henneman.

Three weeks ago some people were calling for Roos to be sacked - if we win on the weekend we'll be thinking about the top 4. It's the nature of the footy supporting beast. I actually find it quite entertaining - especially now that I've stopped lurking and can throw in my more positive $0.02.

This Sean is called the "culture of the game". I have been watching from the terraces for 45 years and supporters have not changed. Opinions are so diverse about players.Standing in the outer at the Lake Oval was a life style.

I recall a bloke called Francis Jackson who played, for the want of a better word, in the backline. The large section of yobbos that stood in our area (of which I can proudly say I was one) hated him with a passion. His disposal was poor, he dropped marks, kicked it up in the air 40 metres, stubbed his foot on the ground when kicking - we saw him as a dunce. If we were getting belted at least we had something to laugh about.

Mark McClure from Carlton when interviewed recently said the one player he loved playing on was Jacko. He would always kick a bag on him. He said when I saw him coming to pick me up my confidence went sky high.

Yet other South supporters reckoned he was a gun.

It is all in the eyes of the beholder.

Love it.

[NMWBloods]

LOL - Francis Jackson (came from Richmond with a decent rep as I recall as part of the Pitura package) really summed up South of the 70s - generally inept and clueless and poor skills, but every now and again would do something amazing.

[Nico]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Of course there are also all the players who were bagged and failed to develop or the ones on whom a lot of hopes were pinned and failed to develop. There are all sorts and different outcomes, so unless you are a soothsayer, it's unlikely that anyone at all will learn enough to know for sure whether players who do not look outstanding to start with are going to make it.

Great call NMW. Saw From the Vault last night 1987 Swans V Carlton. We won.

Craig Potter was playing and was hard at it, got the footy, kicked OK and looked a real player. Played 42 games in 2 stints at the club and went to Brisbane in 1991 for 3 games. What looked like a talent just didn't materialise.

[mocaholic]

Originally posted by Nico
Great call NMW. Saw From the Vault last night 1987 Swans V Carlton. We won.

Craig Potter was playing and was hard at it, got the footy, kicked OK and looked a real player. Played 42 games in 2 stints at the club and went to Brisbane in 1991 for 3 games. What looked like a talent just didn't materialise.

Was that the game that Diesel king hit Rhys...and got a free kick? A 2pt margin IIRC?

Craig Potter - no. 17. The Pitura deal, we got Teaser and Whale. I always laugh about this until I recall the Neville Fields deal. That coulda cost us a premiership in 1986 if we'd still had Terry & Neale Daniher.