An alternative gameplan...

[Guzzitza]

SO, there a lot of people bagging the current gameplan, (its easy to do at the moment) - so for all those experts on here - if you hate the current style - lets hear your new gaemplan that you would employ.
NB: saying "ill buy 4 star midfielders" doesnt count. Im talking seriously, with the players we've got, and our current confidence level. What would you do to steady the ship?

[Charlie]

Kennelly to the wing. McVeigh and Buchanan in the middle, Schneider in the forward pocket with short stints in the middle. LRT out, Schauble in. Bevan out, Dempster in.

That solves the initial selection problems.

At the centre bounces, I'm sick and tired of seeing the ball forced out to the wing, where Jude might get to it first. Punch the ball forward. That brings Barry Hall into the contest more or less straight away. We have a superstar. Use him.

With Kennelly on the wing, Goodes floating through the middle, and Jolly or Ball playing first ruck, that gives us three strong marking options through the centre at any one time. This means, heaven forbid, that we can actually kick it long instead of fumbling and bumbling our way down the ground. It's not that revolutionary; put marking players on the wing, and kick it to them. Allow them to set up Williams, McVeigh, Ablett and Crouch - good midfielders who can run with the ball, kick it, or both.

We have potentially the best half-forward line in the competition once Davis gets back. O'Keefe and Davis actually do the right thing some of the time - they should be around the 50-55 metre mark, where they can give Hall and O'Loughlin plenty of space. They are the best two kicks in the team... it makes sense to use them. Instead, the game plan results in them being on the half-back flank half the time.

See the Blight quote in my sig. This is a top four team playing with all the self-belief of an SFL team.

[liz]

The lack of confidence and hard work we saw yesterday has me baffled because its not what we've seen over the last few weeks. I',m not sure they actually had a game plan last night.

[Guzzitza]

Originally posted by liz
The lack of confidence and hard work we saw yesterday has me baffled because its not what we've seen over the last few weeks. I',m not sure they actually had a game plan last night.

I'd disagree with that, its the same gameplan that has barely got us through the last 3 wins. The last 3 were by no means convincing.

[Vivien]

Originally posted by Guzzitza
I'd disagree with that, its the same gameplan that has barely got us through the last 3 wins. The last 3 were by no means convincing.

Spot on. I think we've been lucky in the last few weeks that we haven't come up against opposition who could make us pay for our errors. Even though we've been winning, it has been by no means convincing. It was only going to take a decent side (and the Saints aren't even that at the moment) to show us up.

I think the clear problem with our current game plan is we're just not generating enough scoring opportunities. Never mind goal kicking inaccuracies - 29 inside 50s for the match says it all. We're never going to generate enough scoring opportunities if we keep playing a high-possesion defensive game as we have been. And so long as we continue to play out on the wings and kick to leading players in the F50 pockets, we are never going to be accurate goal kickers.

I am not an expert. So I'm not going to pretend that I have the answers to our current problem. But for my mind the two key issues are:

1) Generating scoring opportunities
2) Confidence

The solution to #1 is easy - don't flood so heavily! I'm not saying we should do away with flooding altogether, because sometimes it can work, but it's not going to work all the time. Also, play through the centre corridor. We're at our best on the rebound from half back with one long kick into the F50 to a leading forward.

#2 is not so easily solved, especially when you bring the solution to #1 into play because the players will be adopting a game plan that they are probably not comfortable with. Developing confidence takes time, but it certainly begins with providing your players with the opportunity to play man-on-man football and discover what they are really made of. Also, if you have a set shot at goal, take it - back yourself - don't be looking to dish the ball off to someone else.

All easier said than done of course. I don't think we'll see much of a change in attitude from the coaching staff.

And I like Charlie's idea of putting McVeigh and Buchanan in the midfield - we need some run there. Personally, I'd like to see Kennnealy left where he is though.

[Nico]

Alternative game plan. What about any type of game plan.

That game was worse than the one that condemned Eade to oblivion from the Swans.

[LittleSchneider]

Commentators ripped through us last night - and so he should!

How can we possibly kick goals when there is no one inside our forward 50! We had 29 forward 50 entries last night - THE SECOND LOWEST IN AFL HISTORY since they started recording stats which was 15 years ago!

We cant get crumbing goals because MOL and Hall always lead wide away from a contest. And because they are kicking near the boundary so often their accuracy is @@@@ this year! This is because the swans constantly go to the boundary line and keep it out wide! We try to rack up possessions in the midfield (god only knows why) instead of penetrating into our attacking 50!

Roos seriously needs to have a look at the stats from last night and CHANGE THE PLAN!

[chammond]

Originally posted by Charlie
Kennelly to the wing. McVeigh and Buchanan in the middle, Schneider in the forward pocket with short stints in the middle. LRT out, Schauble in. Bevan out, Dempster in.

That solves the initial selection problems.

At the centre bounces, I'm sick and tired of seeing the ball forced out to the wing, where Jude might get to it first. Punch the ball forward. That brings Barry Hall into the contest more or less straight away. We have a superstar. Use him.

With Kennelly on the wing, Goodes floating through the middle, and Jolly or Ball playing first ruck, that gives us three strong marking options through the centre at any one time. This means, heaven forbid, that we can actually kick it long instead of fumbling and bumbling our way down the ground. It's not that revolutionary; put marking players on the wing, and kick it to them. Allow them to set up Williams, McVeigh, Ablett and Crouch - good midfielders who can run with the ball, kick it, or both.

We have potentially the best half-forward line in the competition once Davis gets back. O'Keefe and Davis actually do the right thing some of the time - they should be around the 50-55 metre mark, where they can give Hall and O'Loughlin plenty of space. They are the best two kicks in the team... it makes sense to use them. Instead, the game plan results in them being on the half-back flank half the time.

See the Blight quote in my sig. This is a top four team playing with all the self-belief of an SFL team.

Hmmm, it just shows there ain't going to be any easy answers to this, because driving home from last night's debacle my conclusions were pretty much the opposite of yours, Charlie.

As far as I can see, Roos assessment of our squad is precise . . . apart from a handful of stars, we lack talent and ability and will only win games by scrapping and fighting every step of the way . . . we rode our luck in 2003, and made the most of our opportunities in 2004. This year is an indication of how we perform when things don't go our way . . . and if we reach half-way at 6-5 then Roos will have done a pretty good job!

As for the gameplan, I don't think we have much leeway for change. Players like Buchanan and Schneider are only ever going to be bit-players and certainly won't make a difference whatever position they play. McVeigh still plays like a novice, and is only improving slowly.

If Goodes 'floats' without rucking, he'll just be tagged out of the game . . . and Walls will whine 127,000 times about how unaccountable he is!

With Williams out, we have virtually no creative flair in the midfield . . . with Buchanan and Schneider playing so poorly, we're reduced to rotating O'Keefe on the ball, and Crouch to the forward pocket.

Our defence is our biggest asset, and I can understand Roos reluctance to tinker with it. Still, I too would love to see Kennelly play on the wing . . . and I agree with those who can't see the sense in leaving Schauble out of the equation.

All-in-all, I think Roos is making the best of a very moderate squad, and if we win one final, we'll have performed above our ability.

[NMWBloods]

So what does that all mean for the future? It pretty much means there is nothing positive to look forward to over the next few years.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by chammond
[B]Hmmm, it just shows there ain't going to be any easy answers to this, because driving home from last night's debacle my conclusions were pretty much the opposite of yours, Charlie.

As far as I can see, Roos assessment of our squad is precise . . . apart from a handful of stars, we lack talent and ability and will only win games by scrapping and fighting every step of the way . . . we rode our luck in 2003, and made the most of our opportunities in 2004. This year is an indication of how we perform when things don't go our way . . . and if we reach half-way at 6-5 then Roos will have done a pretty good job!

Well, I had us down as 5-5 after ten rounds at the start of the season. I also had us finishing around 14-8 or 15-7... so I'm sticking by my pre-season guesstimates at this stage. Assuming they start to play to the level I believe possible.

As for the gameplan, I don't think we have much leeway for change. Players like Buchanan and Schneider are only ever going to be bit-players and certainly won't make a difference whatever position they play. McVeigh still plays like a novice, and is only improving slowly.

I agree with you on Buchanan (I think he could be useful at clearances, though... at least until the next group of Moore, Willoughby and Schmidt graduate to take his place), but I still hold out hope for Schneider. McVeigh is improving slowly because he doesn't get enough game time. I don't know how many times I can say it... play him for 100 minutes.

If Goodes 'floats' without rucking, he'll just be tagged out of the game . . . and Walls will whine 127,000 times about how unaccountable he is!

Sorry - I do intend for him to ruck, just not at centre bounces.

With Williams out, we have virtually no creative flair in the midfield . . . with Buchanan and Schneider playing so poorly, we're reduced to rotating O'Keefe on the ball, and Crouch to the forward pocket.

Crouch in the middle would be preferable to up forward. Agree we need Williams back. Schneider has clearly regressed in two years, so he should go back and do once again what he came to prominence doing in 2003. Put him in the forward pocket.

Our defence is our biggest asset, and I can understand Roos reluctance to tinker with it. Still, I too would love to see Kennelly play on the wing . . . and I agree with those who can't see the sense in leaving Schauble out of the equation.

Kennelly's job can be done just as well by Saddington or Dempster.

All-in-all, I think Roos is making the best of a very moderate squad, and if we win one final, we'll have performed above our ability.

The squad includes Hall, O'Keefe, Kennelly, O'Loughlin, Barry, Bolton, Kirk and Goodes. Proven players all. Davis, Williams and Schauble to join them. That can be a very good core... McVeigh, Bolton, Jolly, Ablett, Saddington, Ball and Crouch flesh out the best 18.

For the rest, take your pick of Mathews (captain... no matter how many times I tell myself it'll be ok, I don't believe it), Schneider, Nicks, Dempster, Buchanan, Vogels and Bevan.

The problems, admittedly, start after that point - it seems that our list is caught short by the fact that Fixter, Fosdike, James, Powell and Sundqvist all appear doomed. I am expecting a clean-out at the end of the year that see those five and possibly Spriggs delisted, and Maxfield, Ball and Nicks retire.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the 22 who played last night, if they had been freed up to play football the way it is supposed to be played, could have beaten St Kilda. We were less than two goals behind fairly late in the third quarter, weren't we?

[Nico]

Originally posted by LittleSchneider
Commentators ripped through us last night - and so he should!

How can we possibly kick goals when there is no one inside our forward 50! We had 29 forward 50 entries last night - THE SECOND LOWEST IN AFL HISTORY since they started recording stats which was 15 years ago!

We cant get crumbing goals because MOL and Hall always lead wide away from a contest. And because they are kicking near the boundary so often their accuracy is @@@@ this year! This is because the swans constantly go to the boundary line and keep it out wide! We try to rack up possessions in the midfield (god only knows why) instead of penetrating into our attacking 50!

Roos seriously needs to have a look at the stats from last night and CHANGE THE PLAN!

This kicking wide thing was what Eade was roundly condemned for and what our current coach was going to get rid of. Short to medium term memory loss perhaps.

[chammond]

Originally posted by Charlie
The squad includes Hall, O'Keefe, Kennelly, O'Loughlin, Barry, Bolton, Kirk and Goodes. Proven players all. Davis, Williams and Schauble to join them. That can be a very good core... McVeigh, Bolton, Jolly, Ablett, Saddington, Ball and Crouch flesh out the best 18.

For the rest, take your pick of Mathews (captain... no matter how many times I tell myself it'll be ok, I don't believe it), Schneider, Nicks, Dempster, Buchanan, Vogels and Bevan.

The problems, admittedly, start after that point - it seems that our list is caught short by the fact that Fixter, Fosdike, James, Powell and Sundqvist all appear doomed. I am expecting a clean-out at the end of the year that see those five and possibly Spriggs delisted, and Maxfield, Ball and Nicks retire.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the 22 who played last night, if they had been freed up to play football the way it is supposed to be played, could have beaten St Kilda. We were less than two goals behind fairly late in the third quarter, weren't we?

I agree that our best 22 are a handy enough bunch, but I suspect the mix is wrong. We have a preponderance of scrappers who give 110% week in week out, and a real shortage of creativity, especially in the midfield. Looking back, that's probably been the situation since before Eade got the flick.

The Swans are obviously aware of this, and have recruited to try and fix it. But . . . Ablett is a steady contributor without the flair of his cousin, McVeigh may fit the bill, but not yet awhile. And much the same can be said for Willoughby, Schmidt, Moore and Garrubba . . . they may make it eventually, but certainly won't make a difference this year.

So, I guess we're unlikely to win a flag this year or next . . . but we'll still make the finals, and once you're in that lottery, anything can happen!

[Xie Shan]

Originally posted by Charlie
This is a top four team playing with all the self-belief of an SFL team.

Interesting comment. Do you really believe that Charlie? I want to believe this, but it's becoming harder and harder to. True, we're still 5-5, and the comp IS wide open this year, but top four? It's hard to see where the belief is going to come back from - if the Brisbane game didn't make any difference to the team's confidence, i'm not sure what will. And I thought their confidence was slowly returning in the last 3 weeks!

For me, creativity seems to be the major problem, especially in the midfield. J Bolton and Kirk, as good as they have been (and without whom we'd be getting absolutely smashed), aren't the explosive talents we need. Even in 2003, when self-belief was high, they still had to work very hard to win most games - its just that their conversion rate was much better. I'm pretty sure we had the lowest number of inside 50s of any team in the top 8 that year.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by sydfan83
Interesting comment. Do you really believe that Charlie? I want to believe this, but it's becoming harder and harder to. True, we're still 5-5, and the comp IS wide open this year, but top four? It's hard to see where the belief is going to come back from - if the Brisbane game didn't make any difference to the team's confidence, i'm not sure what will. And I thought their confidence was slowly returning in the last 3 weeks!

For me, creativity seems to be the major problem, especially in the midfield. J Bolton and Kirk, as good as they have been (and without whom we'd be getting absolutely smashed), aren't the explosive talents we need. Even in 2003, when self-belief was high, they still had to work very hard to win most games - its just that their conversion rate was much better. I'm pretty sure we had the lowest number of inside 50s of any team in the top 8 that year.

I wouldn't have said it if I didn't believe it to be true.

The only teams in the competition this year that I believe have been clearly better than the Swans are West Coast and Geelong. Maybe Melbourne as well. After that, I think we can be the equal of any other team.

St Kilda have been disappointing, and aren't close to last year's side at this stage. Brisbane's out of contention, Port have been less than impressive. Richmond and Adelaide have made good starts, but have to continue it in the second half of the season (doubtful in Richmond's case, in my opinion). Fremantle and the Kangaroos are thereabouts, but no more consistent than we are. The Bulldogs could sneak in, but Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn don't enter my calculations.

The field is wide open. We only need to play to our strengths, rather than weaknesses, and have as much luck as any top side gets, and we're in the game. They just don't seem to want to think that way.

[Xie Shan]

Originally posted by Charlie
I wouldn't have said it if I didn't believe it to be true.

The only teams in the competition this year that I believe have been clearly better than the Swans are West Coast and Geelong. Maybe Melbourne as well. After that, I think we can be the equal of any other team.

St Kilda have been disappointing, and aren't close to last year's side at this stage. Brisbane's out of contention, Port have been less than impressive. Richmond and Adelaide have made good starts, but have to continue it in the second half of the season (doubtful in Richmond's case, in my opinion). Fremantle and the Kangaroos are thereabouts, but no more consistent than we are. The Bulldogs could sneak in, but Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn don't enter my calculations.

The field is wide open. We only need to play to our strengths, rather than weaknesses, and have as much luck as any top side gets, and we're in the game. They just don't seem to want to think that way.

Well said, although it's still hard to see how such a major turnaround is going to happen. Hope you're right though, because it's excruciating watching such a talented forward line go to waste as it is now. If this continues, the Swans may as well trade Hall to West Coast for all I care and see what damage he could do when served by a brilliant midfield!