An alternative gameplan...

[liz]

Originally posted by Nico
Codswollop.

Nice constructive contribution.

Care to elaborate?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Guzzitza began this thread looking for an alternative gameplan which is the challenge facing the Swans now. And despite his comment that "ill buy 4 star midfielders" doesnt count it's amazing and a little depressing that some people are incapable of not retreating into fantasy recruitment land. God help us if the Football department thought like that!

[giant]

Originally posted by barry
I'm actually in favour of tanking the year by playing young guys and going for draft picks. I'd also play the following players in "easy" positions to up their trade value which will trade for more draft picks:
O'keefe, - going nowhere.
Leo Barry, - Not up to a KP, so not what we need long term
MOL, - Too injury prone.
Nicks, - Inconsistant
Davis, - Too injury prone.
Crouch, - Taggers dont win flags.
Saddington - Hack.
.. and anyone over 27 who wont be with us by the time we rebuild.

You only get monkeys if you only offer peanuts.

You forgot LRT - I believe you've noted elsewhere that he'd be "snapped up" by all those other clubs desperate for a KP backman

[barry]

Originally posted by giant
You forgot LRT - I believe you've noted elsewhere that he'd be "snapped up" by all those other clubs desperate for a KP backman

Snapped up if he was delisted. His trade value would be small as he's still a project player. He's the sort of bloke Sheeds would turn into a champion.

I'm in favour of flogging off the old guys before they retire. LRT's too young.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Now liz (amongst others) put up the usefull suggestion below, and I think it's worth consideration.

Originally posted by liz
I don't believe that the team's skills are inherently as bad as they seem to be at the moment. The disposal skill level was much higher in 2003, and if anything I think they might have improved their ball winning ability.

Since then we've only lost Cresswell, I have no idea what's meant "when Roos pointed out some of the club's better players had retired" (Today's SMH) and Kirk, Bolton & Ablett in particular have all improved since then.

Originally posted by liz
They're just not doing the basic controllable things at the moment - running, playing in front,

The running issue has been highlighted in other threads.

Originally posted by liz
They're just not . . . even tackling properly on last night's evidence.

Players seem undecided whether to zone off or tackle/shepherd.

Originally posted by liz
And yes, they seem to be so scared of making mistakes that they take the soft options - and still make mistakes!

This is a particular feature of our runners, we have all seen them playing hot-potato instead of going forward.

So why can't we replicate the football we played in 2003?

Midfield: If it ain't the players and liz has explained why it can't be, then it's gotta be attitude or coaching, and both of those are the responsibility of Lyon and ultimately Roos. Whether we can turn back the clock and start playing fearless open running football immediately I doubt it, but better late than never.

Backline: Tiger, Leo etc. who generate run from the back are being watched more closely by their opponents these days (and have been wasted playing on key forwards) and Crouch has left the area. So a drop in performance is to be anticipated untill some new blood is sent in (Dempster unleashed perhaps).

Rucks: Goodes must spend time in the ruck or else he becomes ineffective so saying we can't afford to play both Jolly & Ball.
{{I digress but I thought they were appalling last night (how can they have trouble with Blake's mobility?) They're Ruckmen, they should have taken 10 minute turns in brutalising the 'athlete' not trying to match his run.}} So unless your gunna play a ruckman permanently in the forard line we must make up our mind between Jolly & Ball and play 1 only.

Forwards: Hall, MOL, ROK and Schneider were all there this week, in 2003 other coaches feared them. Now days they're starved of the ball, it comes irregualarly and very very slowly (defenders idea of heaven). The forwards in an effort to get a kick then start leading longer and to the boundary, which not only reduces the number of goals it impossible for us to rove a goal. Stopping them doing this for a whole game is dependant on better supply from the midfiled.

[RogueSwan]

This isn't a solution but a few things this thread has made me think about a few things.

Stating the obvious, in 2003 the Swans generated their run from the back half with the ball carrier taking on his man and drawing another to create an open man get the ball up to Hall. Now my memory isn't good enough to recall exactly how this was done and it seems neither does any one else.
This year it seems that players stand around waiting for something to happen. That is, they seem unsure of what their team mate is going to do. This in turn results in flat footedness (did I just create a new word?) and no run.
There seems to be a distinct lack of team play and more to the point shepherding. Now knowing how Roosy likes basketball you would think he would understand the basics and advantages of blocking. Maybe he does put the team just don't put it into practice.
I can only recall a few instances this year where there has been deliberate shepherding and only when Irish has told his team mates to do it. Anyone else recall his run from kick in against the Lions (I think?). He signalled for a player to run back then kicked it to himself, handballed the team mate who then handballed back to Irish whilst laying on a block, another shepherd was laid on the opposition now moving toward Irish as he sprinted past and before you knew it he was in the centre square kicking into the forward 50. It did not seem like a set play but so easily could have been. The Swans have the talent to do this sort of thing, obviously not all the time, but often enough to generate run.
On Saturday night the Saints continually pushed (legitimately) the Swans away from the ball carrier. As one Swan would go at the opposition there would be a Saint ready to bump him to help out a team mate.
This could be a role for Bevan and Buchanan, don't touch the ball, run with the carrier and be prepared to take a hit to allow your team mate with good disposal skills to put it to the Swans advantage. ie: Hall in the middle of the ground.
I know it?s a bit simplistic and there are many other factors to improving the swan?s performance, but that's my Two Cents.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by RogueSwan
There seems to be a distinct lack of...shepherding.

We have been the poorest team at providing shepherds for teammates for many a year now. We will have 4 guys running in a wave, all of them looking to receive a handball instead of at least one of them looking to lay a shepherd to give the ball carrier a few moments extra to find the best option to dispose to.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by RogueSwan
There seems to be a distinct lack of team play and more to the point shepherding.

Yes!!

[SimonH]

My apologies. Don't look at my posting under the heading 'Morning doom and gloom'. Or if you have, I feel a little silly for having posted it without having scanned the boards more thoroughly first.

While some posts are inevitably juvenile (let's get rid of everyone over 27! All AFL premierships have been won by teams whose players were exclusively 26 and under, most of whom had been thrown together in the last year or two, right?), I agree w/ Dan that this is one of the better (and more important) threads I've ever seen on RWO.

And for what it's worth, I half-agree w/ Charlie. However, having mobile marking power through the wings means that we bring players like O'Keefe and Saddo up to provide a 2nd option to Goodes, so O'Keefe will have fewer shots for goal (not that he's getting many now anyway). Also, one of the better things about the Hawthorn game was seeing 3 big men on the ground (plus Goodes), and the opposition struggling to match up. So now that Vogels is making his mark, against a small backline we should always have at least one big man on the full-forward line, so that Schneider (or Buchanan if he re-finds his touch) has something substantial to scavenge from.

I agree there should be more instances of shepherding where the player with the ball is either struggling to take possession or is definitely going for a bolt themselves. However, when we have clean possession and are on the bolt, given a choice of running towards the ball and maybe putting on a shepherd, and running away from it to create another option, they should go the 2nd choice almost every time.

For a team that's more out-of-form than in it, Sydney's ability to back themselves and take risks is just fine. It might seem like fiddling with degrees of awfulness, be at no stage this year have we looked as spiritless as Hawthorn did in round 1.

[ScottH]

I thought we were playing Simon says!!

[NMWBloods]

Here are a few ideas:

• Bring Schauble back as KP defender
• Run with one loose backman, to help out defensively and provide an extra player for run. Possibly use Barry or Kennelly in this role
• Run with a 5-man forward line - Hall, MOL, Schneider, Davis, ROK (with substitutions for injuries and occasionally swap a ruckman down there)
• Ensure that at all times we have at least 2 players in our F50 and at least 1 more not far beyond it
• Move the ball quickly forward to give forwards greater options one-out or to give them more space to lead, and leads to generally be in the 45deg arc of goals
• When the ball is in dispute and a Swans player is contesting in a pack, another player is not to throw himself in unless there are other Swans players to cover him outside the pack
• Players to run hard to find space in the corridor or on the fat side of the ground to open up space and get a more direct route to goal
• No more than 2 players to contest marks - remainder to scout packs
• When players do not have the ball they should either run to make space or shepherd the player with the ball
• After delivering the ball, whether by foot or hand, the player should continue running either to offer a fresh target or to provide a shepherd to the receiver
• Knock the ball forward and clear of packs more frequently at both centre bounces and around the ground, and set up the midfield to account for this
• Knock the ball forward when ball is in dispute rather than lock it up and have players ready for this and set themselves up accordingly
• Establish in the players' minds - if in doubt kick long and, again, have players allow for this further up the field.
• Only handball when it is a good option that creates opportunities rather than as the first resort
• Try Kennelly on the wing as a potential running, long-kicking option
• Cut back on the rotations to allow players to settle into their roles

[Ruck'n'Roll]

You said a mouthfull there pleas have them engraved in stone and delivered to Mr P Roos c/o Sydney Swans FC

I especially like

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Knock the ball forward when ball is in dispute rather than lock it up and have players ready for this and set themselves up accordingly[/list]

Say Monty get pinged against the Saints, this time not for failing to get it out but using an open hand, he should've used a clenched fist of course but I thought it was pretty finicky from the umpire.

[Bleed Red Blood]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Here are a few ideas:

etc

Yep. But also, get Ball, Jolly and Goodes to actually hit the ball to a swan from a ruck contest.

[Guzzitza]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Guzzitza began this thread looking for an alternative gameplan which is the challenge facing the Swans now. And despite his comment that "ill buy 4 star midfielders" doesnt count it's amazing and a little depressing that some people are incapable of not retreating into fantasy recruitment land. God help us if the Football department thought like that!

Ruckman, i consider "ill buy 4 star midfielders" not a realistic option because we are in the middle of the season. There is no open market for players, you cannot just buy them when we feel the need, it can only occur at the end of the season - so with that in mind, we will have to come up with a gameplan or strategy that involves our current list. Feel free to start delving into trading fantasy land when the actual trading period begins. Until that time trading is irrelevant to our current situation.

BTW; thanks everyone for your comments, nice to have a thread where the most knowledgable posters put forth their ideas - gives hope that there are answers to the current situation!

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Guzzitza
Ruckman, i consider "ill buy 4 star midfielders" not a realistic option because we are in the middle of the season. There is no open market for players, you cannot just buy them when we feel the need, it can only occur at the end of the season - so with that in mind, we will have to come up with a gameplan or strategy that involves our current list. Feel free to start delving into trading fantasy land when the actual trading period begins. Until that time trading is irrelevant to our current situation.

Wow, first time I've ever had someone disagree with me for agreeing with them!!!!!!

I know my posts tend to be lenghthy and I get a little syntactically challenged, but if you re-read my posts on this thread (or look at the link I inserted in the "sack 11 players" thread) you may find that I was lauding your efforts to focus on the here and now gameplan.