Roos latest - gameplan wont change

[Newbie]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Give Roos a break! After one full year of footy, you can hardly expect these players to be super-stars. Otherwise they would have gone much higher on the draft.

They do not have to be super stars. It is not the point. The point is none of them has progressed. Schneider is playing worse than he did in 2003, Bevan this year is worse than Bevan of last year. McVeigh has not developed. Even Craig Bolton and Nick Davis. I noticed their skills are getting lousy by every game. Davis goal kicking which was a feature of his game when he joined us. This year, he has been very inaccurate. Bolton basic skills are getting worse if you keep a watch on him.

They all get worse after playing so many matches with that sh&%% STYLE of play. If it is not enough to convince anyone then I dont know what else could?

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Good on you Paul.

Its not the gameplan, its the execution.

Given it's not working with the guys and their skill level, perhaps it's time to change the game plan to suit the players.

I'm yet to see a single "coach" on RWO come up with a truly better one.

You mean nothing better than locking the ball up and forcing stoppage after stoppage? I think some suggestions have been better than that.

The best we have to offer is "insightful" changes to the team, that are based as much on wishful thinking as blind optimism.

Yep - let's just sit back and assume they all have a master plan that has alluded everyone...

Include this article in your thinking readers, and maybe you will start to see that its not just Roos who thinks this way:

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/r...305621651.html

As if any of the players will blame the coach - instead they will blame the amorphous player group. The skills are terrible, there's no doubting it, but the game plan really doesn't seem to suit the current players.

Let's note in the 3 games we won we kicked just 35 goals, against teams outside the eight, so hardly an amazing performance to hang your hat on.

[Sean]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

You mean nothing better than locking the ball up and forcing stoppage after stoppage? I think some suggestions have been better than that.

That comment highlights the problem with the whole gameplan debate because as I'm sure you know, that's not part of the gameplan. As Roos said, if you have a Judd in the midfield you don't have 3 stoppages because he clears it at the first one.

Let's note in the 3 games we won we kicked just 35 goals, against teams outside the eight, so hardly an amazing performance to hang your hat on.

Our skills were very ordinary in those games as well. If we had actually played well we would have scored more points.

That's another issue with the gameplan debate. We have been very ordinary this season in terms of skills and decision making and yet we are 5-5. Maybe the gameplan is actually excellent. 5-5 is an awesome record for a team that has quite possibly been the worst in the AFL - I can't think of anyone who has shown worse skills than us.

I'm obviously being a bit argumentative with those comments but IMHO the gameplan is not our problem - it doesn't matter what our gameplan is until we can hit targets by hand and foot. On Saturday there were very few players who could do that.

[Nico]

Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by Guzzitza
is it just me, or does this comment seem like hes trying to shirk responsiblity back on to the players, ie. suggesting that really, as coach he doesnt have much of an influence over the game..
if so, thats worrying.

And agree with you Mike_B, Roos cant consistently spurt out these excuses and then not doing anything about it! Hes been saying this crap all season - surely if we dont have talent in the midfield then we should be trying to blood some younger guys in there to see if they can step up to the task. I realise that this has sort of been happening with Schneider and McVeigh, but really if hes going to be serious about it, he has to give more gametime to McVeigh and accept that Schneider is best suited as a forward crumber. Time to give Moore MORE gametime, he looked promising. Spriggs looked to be a failure, so who does that leave? I cant comment on others in the reserves as Ive not seen them play, but surely there are some potentials there that aren't injured??

Guzz how many times do you need to be told, we don't have forward crumbers. They are either wing crumbers or back pocket crumbers who on the very rare occasion sneak a goal, or in Buchanan's case, sneak a behind or out of bounds on the full.

[Nico]

Ben Mathews and inside player. Oh Pleeeese.

[hammo]

If Willoughby is fit then he deserves a run. He must surely offer us more than Ben Matthews.

I think we are also missing Fosdike. Once he's fit again he will definitely get a run.

Would also like to see Moore kept in seniors - he obviously knows how to play footy.

[Guzzitza]

Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by Nico
Guzz how many times do you need to be told, we don't have forward crumbers. They are either wing crumbers or back pocket crumbers who on the very rare occasion sneak a goal, or in Buchanan's case, sneak a behind or out of bounds on the full.

I've been told nothing!!!!!! BAH!..

and Schneiderman... your posts are as frustrating as watching us play at the moment. As it has been suggested, if your team isnt suited to the style of play, then change the style. Roos is complaing of ineffective handballs etc. Dont shut down the ball and then you dont have to rely on having Judd getting the ball and giving that unbelievable first time posession. Kick long to tall men rather than work it up the wings via inaccurate handballing and rolling mauls.
Also, maybe you havent been reading the other threads currently active, there is plenty of well thought out analysis going on regarding where and how we can improve our game. It is also true that the game plan is blindingly obvious. To everyone! There is no secret about what Roos is trying to accomplish with the style of play.

[ROK Lobster]

Schneiderman

[Guzzitza]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
Schneiderman

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAH oh dear.. laughing out loud... great stuff

[Sean]

Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by Guzzitza
Dont shut down the ball and then you dont have to rely on having Judd getting the ball and giving that unbelievable first time posession.

The shut down part of our game is designed to limit the effectiveness of the opposition. If we play a team with a superior midfield that will get more clearances, at least we don't get hammered and could get a chance to steal the game like we did against Brisbane.

If we open up the game and don't have numbers around the ball, we still don't get the clearance but the opposition will find it easier to move the ball forward. It would be nice to play looser but the only result is that we will get thumped.

You'll notice that we can occasionally look to be more attacking. That's not because we play a different gameplan - it's because we are getting the clearances. For example, against the Bulldogs in the 3rd (or may be the 4th - can't remember) quarter.

Kick long to tall men rather than work it up the wings via inaccurate handballing and rolling mauls.

The gameplan is to kick long to the tall men. That's the thing that I don't understand about what the likes of Walls are going on with - surely they don't think that the style of play we used on Saturday was intentional.

Chipping the ball up the wings has never been part of the gameplan. It's what happens when our players make poor decisions or lose confidence due to poor skills.

As Roos has said, the gameplan is essentially the same as 2003 - get numbers around the ball, break quickly from defence or the midfield and deliver quick and long into the forward 50. We now appear to get more numbers around the ball than we were in 2003 but essentially the difference is that our skills were much better then than they are now.

Anyway, my personal opinion on what is going wrong has nothing to do with the gameplan, it's skills and team structure.

I'd like to see us put together our best 22 - which would include Schauble, Dempster and Moore - and play it every week. I don't like the idea of changing the side based on the opposition. Let them worry about us - I've never seen Brisbane change their lineup due to the opposition's strengths.

[liz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by Sean
That's the thing that I don't understand about what the likes of Walls are going on with - surely they don't think that the style of play we used on Saturday was intentional.

Not only Walls - a significant proportion of posters on this board seem to think this too.

[Matt79]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by liz
Not only Walls - a significant proportion of posters on this board seem to think this too.

I guess Liz, there has to be concern with a gameplan that is consistently struggling to kick goals. I don't really feel like going back over and looking at how many goals we have kicked in each game, but surely you find it concerning that we are second bottom on the ladder for points for and goals scored.

Whether it is the execution of the game plan or the game plan itself that is letting us down by not kicking enough goals, something needs to give...change a few of the cattle who can execute the game plan correctly or change the game plan itself.

[Sean]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by liz
Not only Walls - a significant proportion of posters on this board seem to think this too.

Yeah - I was trying to be polite

I actually mentioned Walls because I find him much more frustrating - he's paid to know about footy. Like in that article he wrote about us - he used the number of goals scored by our crumbers to show that we don't kick long to contests. Of course he didn't mention the 25 or so that they've missed this year because that doesn't help his argument .

[NMWBloods]

Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by Sean
The gameplan is to kick long to the tall men. That's the thing that I don't understand about what the likes of Walls are going on with - surely they don't think that the style of play we used on Saturday was intentional.

The poor execution was not intentional, but given more of our games turn into slugfests than don't, surely the game plan revolves around creating this stoppage type of play.

We have less long kicks than any other team in the competition. We have more stoppages than any other team in the competition.
Our ratio of handballs to kicks is higher than any other team in the competition.
These stats were evident last year also.

Also, what are all these missed crumbing goals? I don't think there have been a lot of them.

[Schneiderman]

Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

Originally posted by Guzzitza
and Schneiderman... your posts are as frustrating as watching us play at the moment.

Cant be any more frustrating than all the bandwagon supporters who loved us in 2003 but hate us in 2005. Its the "GAMEPLAN" that sucks they say. Paul Roos should stop saying the players suck, because its obviously the GAMEPLAN. What a crock. Why? Because with the same breath they note that we have the most number of behinds in the league, that our clearances suck, and we cant hit a contested target - all of which reeks of SKILL ERRORS.

As it has been suggested, if your team isnt suited to the style of play, then change the style.

To what? And I have participated in those other threads so I know whats been said. Nothing revolutionary. Certainly nothing Roos hasn't tried already. What exactly DO you do with players who cant hit targets, when in the F50 cant kick straight, and when in the D50 cant find a safe escape route? What GAMEPLAN do you employ when your team is down on confidence, form and skill? The answer: who cares. It wont make a difference.

Kick long to tall men rather than work it up the wings via inaccurate handballing and rolling mauls.

They try. I've seen them do it. Watch Bevan or Spriggs, or even J Bolton. They kick it long... straight to a defender. Before you can kick it long, you have to know you can hit a target. Stuart Maxfield led the clangers list for much of this season. Paul Bevan would be close to catching up. "Kick it long" is a dumb strategy for a team like that!