Divisional Structure - Your early impressions

[Pace To Burn]

Some of you blokes need to grow up. Footballers will always gravitate to the best league they are able to play in.


I know South West Sydney, Penrith Nor West etc lose players to premier clubs because players want to play a better standard which is added with a financial inducement.

Guess what?

Pennant Hills, St George, North Shore etc lose just as many players, their BEST players, to the AFL, VFL and even the SANFL & WAFL. Good & Elite players want to play at the best level they can. It is no different to what happens to the division 1 & 2 clubs.

I dont hear the good clubs whinging when blokes go to AFL clubs under these NSW scholarships. 80% wont play a game of AFL but their Sydney clubs realise their place in the food chain and dont waste their time whinging because their best players have moved on to better football. They wish the kids well. Some come back, most dont, it doesnt matter the clubs, just develop whoever is left.

Anyone reading this site would think that some of your clubs had 10 players go to East Coast, Sydney Uni or wherever. The moaning, bleating and sour grapes from some directions is pathetic.

I hate Baulkham Hill as much as anyone but 15 years ago they were in the old SFA struggling but at least they did something to bring them up. Now Sydney Uni is trying something and they to should be congratulated.

Some of the clubs represented on here have been crying the same tune for 20 years but dont do anything out of the ordinary to promote change. The cycle hasnt changed and it wont.

Yeah not quite 10, only 7:

[unconfuseme]

I accept what you are saying there and that is why we have been actively working with a number of junior clubs in our area for some time now and yes we have had players involved in coaching. However at the end of the day it means nothing if you cant compete with the inducements on offer from other clubs.

... doing things consistently over a period of time will cause change, both positive and negative ... I know your club has embraced the positive philosophies, and will be one that has a bright future.

unfortunately, some senior clubs have ignored their juniors over time ... the outcome for them and their junior comps is now evident to all.

Humphrey is right to a certain extent ... the elite will go where their ambition takes them, and of course you will always have your mercenaries ... but the well run clubs (those that have nurtured the next tier of juniors) will get them back to play with their mates, when reality bites!

... so far as the original question, has changing the names of some competitions done anything ... maybe, maybe not, too soon to tell, not really important, because it does not fix the underlying problem for Sydney AFL, which is and has always been the same challenge...

getting them involved in AFL, and then keeping them involved in AFL.

[RPM]

As I have only played in NSW, honest questions:
* Are there other leagues in OZ whereby they play a divisional / tiered structure?
* How long have they been in operation?

Cheers

I grew up in SA playing in amature wich at that time had something like 20 odd divisions (i am talking 15 years ago) and the structure does work well but there are a lot more people around that are willing to help and donate there time to help out, this is about the only issue that will be a problem in NSW, as people when they retired in SA they stayed around the club and helped out here in NSW once they retire most are never seen again unless its some sort of p@@s-up reunion

[Hawknik]

Cheers for the reply RPM and very good point. If we take your feedback, then the restructure has a very strong chance of working for the competition of grades but volunteers and staffing then becomes the issue to make Clubs continue. So if we can cover that off over time, then there is a good chance if could be for the betterment of Sydney footy.

[wise one]

Wise One we nearly folded three years ago - since that time we have regrouped formed an 18's and now have two senior sides. We will admittedly stuggle this year in D4 but we are more concerned about building numbers in the club this year with a longer term view.

You are happy to make a judgement after one round so be it but maybe we should call you "Reactive One" from now on. For the record I was reasonably happy for our D3 first hit up given there were 13 new players in the side and the scoreline didnt give a true reflection of the game - how about you pass judgement after we play them again on our ground rather than on the postage stamp that they play on.

You have mentioned Tom Young but he isnt the only kid the Campbelltown have lost is it? They arnt the only club losing kids either what about Bankstown Juniors Steve Michaels BOG in SU Challenge cup loss on the weekend of Lewis Cowper why arnt they at a either St George or our club? Maybe the AFL has to add zoning in and enforce it ? Do you think that if this happened teams out west would still be struggling - Im sure Penrith would be far far better off?

Tara, 4 rounds in and several sides are starting to single out from the rest, there appears to be only 1 or 2 chances in most grades, except for the 1st Div which possibly stretches to 4.
And the issue still remains in the Sth West area of no wins from 16 games between all 3 clubs excluding CT premier division and whilst you said i was reactive early, i doubt much will change for the rest of the season.

[tara]

Tara, 4 rounds in and several sides are starting to single out from the rest, there appears to be only 1 or 2 chances in most grades, except for the 1st Div which possibly stretches to 4.
And the issue still remains in the Sth West area of no wins from 16 games between all 3 clubs excluding CT premier division and whilst you said i was reactive early, i doubt much will change for the rest of the season.

As for the weekend we were woefull however both of the other games were a different story. On the weekend we had 20 players unavailable for selection through injury, weddings, work etc and it hurt us on the field badly -however we managed to field 18's (won) and two senior sides without any of our under 18's backing up so from a rebuilding point of view Im happy we are heading in the right direction especially considering less than three years ago we had under 30 players on the books.

As for Division three all the four sides in the top four would be in contention Id think and I wouldnt write us off yet either.

[Tom Wills]

Be Smart and Restructure now

The highlights (memories) of our football careers are not the number of wins, but the close games we have played in. The games where you win (or loose) by under a goal. NSW AFL needs to understand this simple concept and restructure now!
Kids do not want to see Camden, Woolongong or East Coast third team getting belted.
While it might sound a bit amatuerish restructure now so that the rest of the year is competitive football that attracts and retains players and supporters (kids).
Look forward to your comments from the average player and those apparently in the "know".

[Norris Lurker]

There's some truth in that, but the same teams that are getting belted this year were getting belted under last year's structure.

There will always be fluctuations from one year to the next in how many teams some clubs are able to field and how strong those teams are. Using Tom's teams as examples, Wollongong in Premier Division aren't subject to promotion & relegation, East Coast Eagles didn't have a thirds last year and Camden finished ahead of Penrith and NorWest last year so deserved the right to test themselves in Second Division.
Using last year's form to determine which divisions each team should be in will never be the perfect indicator - but over a couple of years it should work to produce not as many lopsided games. But I can't see how any form of mid-season restructure as Tom was calling for would work. Are you suggesting some form of pre-season grading carnival like they did a few years ago to determine who was in the Under 18s Premier and Challenge competitions?

[Hawknik]

Totally agree Norris. They have restructured! Give it a chance to let the dust settle.

On ECE, they had the opportunity to put their 3rd side in the league below, but obviously fancied themselves a grade higher. One would guess they underestimated the old SFA strength and went one or two grades too high. And that is ok, next year they can choose to go at it again and strengthen their side OR request to be in the grade below.

Camden chose to stay in that league and felt it best for them as a Club, good on them. They too may re-evaluate for 2010 - then again, the decision may be made for them should they come last and have automatic relegation.

It was always said that it would take 1-2 years to work itself out. The team that is getting smashed each week, if they finish last, will drop down a grade, and the team that wins the comp will move up. In a year or 2 it will be settled somewhat. Keep in mind this is the first year the old SFL and SFA have been able to see how they play against each other and will give the League and the Clubs a good indicator of where the sides should be placed in 2010.

[Sometimes]

On ECE, they had the opportunity to put their 3rd side in the league below, but obviously fancied themselves a grade higher. One would guess they underestimated the old SFA strength and went one or two grades too high. And that is ok, next year they can choose to go at it again and strengthen their side OR request to be in the grade below.

Another influence on this may have been the structure of the alliance with NorWest i.e. Jets playing in 3rd and 4th div, ECE 3rds filling the gap in 2nd div.

[tara]

Another influence on this may have been the structure of the alliance with NorWest i.e. Jets playing in 3rd and 4th div, ECE 3rds filling the gap in 2nd div.

I dont see how that would have stregthened the alliance but your right it would have been a bit of a conflict.

[Hawknik]

Tara, Sometinmes point makes total sense as teh Alliance would not have wanted a Jets team playing against a ECE team hence they had to put one of the sides in Div 3.
Fair point.

[tara]

Tara, Sometinmes point makes total sense as teh Alliance would not have wanted a Jets team playing against a ECE team hence they had to put one of the sides in Div 3.
Fair point.

My point is there is more to it than that - Ask yourself this question - With East Coast introducing a new team how many players will now filter through to Norwest? Wasnt the point of an alliance to bolster both clubs ie the better players encouraged to play prem div whilst those older players and those not at the right standard encouraged to play with Norwest?

[Tom Wills]

Back to the a new (great) structure

Why do we have to wait a "couple of seasons" to fix a blatant problem with the strucutre. Sydney AFL should be congratulated on the courage to introduce the new divisions, and should be equally brave and restructure now for a great comp for the rest of the year. Forget all the crap about Premier clubs being exempt from relegation; in Vic amatuers some of the most successful clubs in the history of the amatuers have had to deal with relegation.

Over the few years I have played against and watched teams in Premier, 1st Division and 2nd Division, anyone who thinks UTS (definitely) and Manly (probably) would not hold their own in Premier league is not watching the same games.

To take the discussion to the next level here are my first 3 divisions.
Premier
1 EAST COAST EAGLES
2 WESTERN SUBURBS
3 UNSW/ES
4 PENNANT HILLS
5 CAMPBELLTOWN
6 NORTH SHORE
7 ST GEORGE
8 SYDNEY UNIVERSITY
9 UTS
10 MANLY-WARRINGAH

Div 1
1 BALMAIN DOCKERS
2 WOLLONGONG
3 MANLY-WARRINGAH
4 UNSW/ES
5 PENNANT HILLS
6 NORTH SHORE
7 EAST COAST EAGLES
8 MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
9 SOUTHERN POWER
10 UTS

Div 2
1 WESTERN SUBURBS
2 WOLLONGONG
3 ST GEORGE
4 HOLROYD-PARRAMATTA
5 SYDNEY UNIVERSITY
6 BALMAIN DOCKERS
7 EAST COAST EAGLES
8 UNSW/ES
9 NOR-WEST
10 UTS

[Tom Wills]

Back to the a new (great) structure continued

I have also thought about the bottom 2 divisions - being
Div 3
1 CAMDEN
2 CAMPBELLTOWN
3 MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
4 PENNANT HILLS
5 PENRITH
6 MOOREBANK SPORTS
7 SOUTHERN POWER
8 SYDNEY UNIVERSITY
9 UTS
10 HOLROYD-PARRAMATTA

Div 4
1 NOR-WEST
2 MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
3 MANLY-WARRINGAH
4 UNSW/ES
5 HOLROYD-PARRAMATTA
6 PENRITH
7 MOOREBANK SPORTS
8 CAMDEN

I would appreciate feedback of why this would not work now, not in 2 or 3 years time.