Divisional Structure - Your early impressions

[DLH]

Wise One we nearly folded three years ago - since that time we have regrouped formed an 18's and now have two senior sides. We will admittedly stuggle this year in D4 but we are more concerned about building numbers in the club this year with a longer term view.

You are happy to make a judgement after one round so be it but maybe we should call you "Reactive One" from now on. For the record I was reasonably happy for our D3 first hit up given there were 13 new players in the side and the scoreline didnt give a true reflection of the game - how about you pass judgement after we play them again on our ground rather than on the postage stamp that they play on.

You have mentioned Tom Young but he isnt the only kid the Campbelltown have lost is it? They arnt the only club losing kids either what about Bankstown Juniors Steve Michaels BOG in SU Challenge cup loss on the weekend of Lewis Cowper why arnt they at a either St George or our club? Maybe the AFL has to add zoning in and enforce it ? Do you think that if this happened teams out west would still be struggling - Im sure Penrith would be far far better off?

I don't think there's any doubt about that Tara, but as you've pointed out we're not the only ones effected by all of this. I believe that zoning for the U/18's should be strongly considered, although enforcing it becomes another matter.

We're in a similar boat to your club in that our major objective is fielding two senior sides each week. We've lost most of our senior team from last year plus our best U/18's which explains why we are now coming up short against the likes of Mac Uni 2's, but the positive is that we were able to name two full senior sides for the first time in a few years on the weekend.

Probably 30-40% of our senior list is now made up of guys who have never played before, but at least it has allowed our club to keep functioning which is the main thing.

[Steamboat]

Tara, I think you make a good point about the zoning and it seems to be the only way to ensure that clubs exist out in the south west area in the future, but we have 3 teams drawing from what is a reasonably small area and from what i have seen from the 12 years or so that i have been involved in this region, the junior teams are dwindling in numbers from what were strong and developing numbers, to some of those stronger clubs now failing to field teams in certain age groups.

[Hawknik]

[QUOTE=DLH;434208] which explains why we are now coming up short against the likes of Mac Uni 2's


Totally understand and agree with your comments with zoning and difficulty in finding players, but could it not be that Mac Uni may have been too strong anyway....

[unconfuseme]

Tara, I think you make a good point about the zoning and it seems to be the only way to ensure that clubs exist out in the south west area in the future, but we have 3 teams drawing from what is a reasonably small area and from what i have seen from the 12 years or so that i have been involved in this region, the junior teams are dwindling in numbers from what were strong and developing numbers, to some of those stronger clubs now failing to field teams in certain age groups.

Zoning is not the definitive answer ... the junior numbers will continue to dwindle if the short sighted senior clubs continue to give nothing back ... and so the cycle shall continue with those senior clubs, like the juniors, struggling to field sides, losing players and support

Those who plan around the future of their clubs (their junior clubs) will actually have a future ... they will generate their own loyalties (you will never keep them all, for a variety of reasons), they will also nurture and develope their future coaches & executive, not just players!

The AFL is doing it's bit to improve the talent pool with their TPP programs, but, for example, how many senior players are volunteering to coach a junior team in their local area? ... how many have considered it?

... the senior clubs destined to grow and flourish understand these philosophies, and are proactive about supporting junior football. They deserve to succeed ... more power to them

[redsox]

give it time

i think the concept needs 3 years to prove itself

After 2 seasons of predactible results in the old second division, it has been pleasantly suprising each week so far to see results and see that in some divisions results are varied.

It may become more predictable through the season.

i think some of the teams are graded 'wrong'. Personal Think Norwest 1's are too low for example and east coast 3rds are too high. But i also think that Norwest have done it tough over last 2 seasons and success is going to be good for their strength over next couple of years.

Coastal makes a good point about the injury flow on effect for teams with a second and third team that compete with another clubs 1st team. But that hopefully will prove as a balancer between player rich clubs and weaker sides.

the new comps get a tick from me... for now at least

[Pekay]

Interesting to read everyone's point of view on this subject, and some valid points have been brought forward.
On the point of the South West area, its comes down to the cyclical nature of footy. Not so long ago, SWS (now Moorebank) were a top four team consistently (I'm sure you'll agree Tara) but fell on tough times, and are now making a decent fist of a rebuild. 10 years ago or so ago C'Town returned from ACTAFL after persuing a higher level of competition. They will return to their former glory also i believe.
As for Nor-West 1s being graded too low, based on the last two years when we returned to what is now Div 2 from Div 4, we only managed 2 wins in 2 years, both times getting the spoon. You are right, a bit of success will help us no end, it did when we won back-to-back in Div 4 a few years back. Numbers on the track are through the roof currently. Fair to say that we wouldn't have had 40 on the track tonight in heavy rain had we gone to Cronulla first round and been belted like we did Round 1 in 08. So its beneficial to us, and soon enough, to most clubs.
Sure, there will be lopsided results from week to week, unavoidable.Ashas been said already, the fruits of this wont be seen for a fair while yet, but i for one am happy with how its panning out.

[tara]

Zoni
The AFL is doing it's bit to improve the talent pool with their TPP programs, but, for example, how many senior players are volunteering to coach a junior team in their local area? ... how many have considered it?

... the senior clubs destined to grow and flourish understand these philosophies, and are proactive about supporting junior football. They deserve to succeed ... more power to them

I accept what you are saying there and that is why we have been actively working with a number of junior clubs in our area for some time now and yes we have had players involved in coaching. However at the end of the day it means nothing if you cant compete with the inducements on offer from other clubs.

[tara]

... the senior clubs destined to grow and flourish understand these philosophies, and are proactive about supporting junior football. They deserve to succeed ... more power to them

Sorry but that is not necessarily true - geography plays an enormous part in this. Last weekend we played UTS who happily told us they had 160 on their books of which less than 20 players were actually students - less than 12.5% - most of their players are expats from interstate. Fair enough for them to I wish we had that luxury.
On the other hand Sydney Uni have form an under 18's team from talented players from regions all over Sydney that they have never set foot in - how is that being proactive? They have had no input into their junior development have they yet that clubs that did expend their time and resources are left out in the cold. Please give me examples of their understanding of their proactiveness in support of junior football. Surely if they had then there would be no need for kids from Bankstown, Penrith, Campbelltown to be there.

[DLH]

[QUOTE=Hawknik;434248]

which explains why we are now coming up short against the likes of Mac Uni 2's


Totally understand and agree with your comments with zoning and difficulty in finding players, but could it not be that Mac Uni may have been too strong anyway....

With all due respect to Mac Uni who played well, with the same first 18 that we had last year I would think the result may have been different. Some people here are suggesting that the Jets shouldn't be in the same division yet we were able to get the points in each of our three meetings last year.

Things can change quite considerably in six months.

As for assisting junior clubs, we have a number of players doing specialist coaching at various clubs in their own time, which we absolutely encourage in order to keep building stronger relationships.

Tara is spot on though, promises and inducements from bigger clubs in relation to the best players will always win the day unfortunately.

[humphrey bear]

Some of you blokes need to grow up. Footballers will always gravitate to the best league they are able to play in.


I know South West Sydney, Penrith Nor West etc lose players to premier clubs because players want to play a better standard which is added with a financial inducement.

Guess what?

Pennant Hills, St George, North Shore etc lose just as many players, their BEST players, to the AFL, VFL and even the SANFL & WAFL. Good & Elite players want to play at the best level they can. It is no different to what happens to the division 1 & 2 clubs.

I dont hear the good clubs whinging when blokes go to AFL clubs under these NSW scholarships. 80% wont play a game of AFL but their Sydney clubs realise their place in the food chain and dont waste their time whinging because their best players have moved on to better football. They wish the kids well. Some come back, most dont, it doesnt matter the clubs, just develop whoever is left.

Anyone reading this site would think that some of your clubs had 10 players go to East Coast, Sydney Uni or wherever. The moaning, bleating and sour grapes from some directions is pathetic.

I hate Baulkham Hill as much as anyone but 15 years ago they were in the old SFA struggling but at least they did something to bring them up. Now Sydney Uni is trying something and they to should be congratulated.

Some of the clubs represented on here have been crying the same tune for 20 years but dont do anything out of the ordinary to promote change. The cycle hasnt changed and it wont.

[tara]

Some of you blokes need to grow up. Footballers will always gravitate to the best league they are able to play in.


I know South West Sydney, Penrith Nor West etc lose players to premier clubs because players want to play a better standard which is added with a financial inducement.

Guess what?

Pennant Hills, St George, North Shore etc lose just as many players, their BEST players, to the AFL, VFL and even the SANFL & WAFL. Good & Elite players want to play at the best level they can. It is no different to what happens to the division 1 & 2 clubs.

I dont hear the good clubs whinging when blokes go to AFL clubs under these NSW scholarships. 80% wont play a game of AFL but their Sydney clubs realise their place in the food chain and dont waste their time whinging because their best players have moved on to better football. They wish the kids well. Some come back, most dont, it doesnt matter the clubs, just develop whoever is left.

Anyone reading this site would think that some of your clubs had 10 players go to East Coast, Sydney Uni or wherever. The moaning, bleating and sour grapes from some directions is pathetic.

I hate Baulkham Hill as much as anyone but 15 years ago they were in the old SFA struggling but at least they did something to bring them up. Now Sydney Uni is trying something and they to should be congratulated.

Some of the clubs represented on here have been crying the same tune for 20 years but dont do anything out of the ordinary to promote change. The cycle hasnt changed and it wont.

Maybe you have missed the point of the thread Humphrey - The thread is about do you think that the new Tiered structure is working? Then Reactive One decided that it isnt obviously working after clubs in the South West Region have played between one and two games and suffered in a couple of cases heavy defeats. He raised the valid point that something needs to be done to address the situation and quickly. Sorry if discussing this is not to you liking. Also a certain AFL club and coach objected to a few things you think should be congratulated on - so its not just us poor peasants in the lower divisions.

As for wishing players well I have done exactly that with both boys we lost to St George this year and have been out to watch them play and play well at that.

[The Insider]

Tara,

Slightly off track, but in response to your previous post. The two boys that you mentioned who left Moorebank originally played with St George (I believe).

Can you enlighten us as to the reason they left St George in the first place and why they returned this year (and left Moorebank)?

[DLH]

Some of you blokes need to grow up. Footballers will always gravitate to the best league they are able to play in.


I know South West Sydney, Penrith Nor West etc lose players to premier clubs because players want to play a better standard which is added with a financial inducement.

Guess what?

Pennant Hills, St George, North Shore etc lose just as many players, their BEST players, to the AFL, VFL and even the SANFL & WAFL. Good & Elite players want to play at the best level they can. It is no different to what happens to the division 1 & 2 clubs.

I dont hear the good clubs whinging when blokes go to AFL clubs under these NSW scholarships. 80% wont play a game of AFL but their Sydney clubs realise their place in the food chain and dont waste their time whinging because their best players have moved on to better football. They wish the kids well. Some come back, most dont, it doesnt matter the clubs, just develop whoever is left.

Anyone reading this site would think that some of your clubs had 10 players go to East Coast, Sydney Uni or wherever. The moaning, bleating and sour grapes from some directions is pathetic.

I hate Baulkham Hill as much as anyone but 15 years ago they were in the old SFA struggling but at least they did something to bring them up. Now Sydney Uni is trying something and they to should be congratulated.

Some of the clubs represented on here have been crying the same tune for 20 years but dont do anything out of the ordinary to promote change. The cycle hasnt changed and it wont.

Most Premier Division clubs would be lucky to lose 1-2 players a year to the elite competitions interstate (Pennant Hills are probably a recent exception), so I don't really think your example is valid. Plus, there would be more than that gravitate to Premier clubs from interstate each year. I don't think anyone has a problem with talented over age players trying their luck at a higher level, we've had a number over the last few years and I would wish all of them the best of luck.

I think the issue is more the talented under age kids who you can at least attempt to build a solid senior club around. It's incredibly disheartening when your best kids get picked up year after year by clubs who are situated in regions where they have more than enough natural talent to work with, without pilfering those who have very little already.

I guess the bottom line is whether or not you think the fact that no Premier Division club exists in the major population corridor west of Ashfield isn't a major structural problem for the Sydney AFL. I don't see how this can be denied and whilst the status quo remains, it will never change.

As for your last point, I'm happy to take any advice on board that you think might help, although from the sounds of things "acceptance of our lot" is the way to go.

[tara]

Tara,

Slightly off track, but in response to your previous post. The two boys that you mentioned who left Moorebank originally played with St George (I believe).

Can you enlighten us as to the reason they left St George in the first place and why they returned this year (and left Moorebank)?

Both Kids were originally juniors from Liverpool and then Bankstown. As for their reasons yes I know but you would have to ask them.

[GoEagles]

Some of you blokes need to grow up. Footballers will always gravitate to the best league they are able to play in.


I know South West Sydney, Penrith Nor West etc lose players to premier clubs because players want to play a better standard which is added with a financial inducement.

Guess what?

Pennant Hills, St George, North Shore etc lose just as many players, their BEST players, to the AFL, VFL and even the SANFL & WAFL. Good & Elite players want to play at the best level they can. It is no different to what happens to the division 1 & 2 clubs.

I dont hear the good clubs whinging when blokes go to AFL clubs under these NSW scholarships. 80% wont play a game of AFL but their Sydney clubs realise their place in the food chain and dont waste their time whinging because their best players have moved on to better football. They wish the kids well. Some come back, most dont, it doesnt matter the clubs, just develop whoever is left.

Anyone reading this site would think that some of your clubs had 10 players go to East Coast, Sydney Uni or wherever. The moaning, bleating and sour grapes from some directions is pathetic.

I hate Baulkham Hill as much as anyone but 15 years ago they were in the old SFA struggling but at least they did something to bring them up. Now Sydney Uni is trying something and they to should be congratulated.

Some of the clubs represented on here have been crying the same tune for 20 years but dont do anything out of the ordinary to promote change. The cycle hasnt changed and it wont.

Nicely said Humphry - for once we will agree on something