Is the Sydney Competition the strongest it has ever been?

[Pmcc2911]

I suspect the change from u18s to u19s had something to do with the AFL draft. Back in the 90s the SydneyAFL played an u19s competition however if I recall correctly it was altered to the u18s to come in line with the other states and the national championships and thus the draft. I can only assume the AFL is considering lifting the draft age(rumours) and thus the change back to U19s.
Whilst it obviously affected Riverview's participation in the SydneyAFL I would have thought it would be a positive move for the game....it seems not though.
There's a real problem when a junior competition with 6 or 8 teams cannot funnel enough players into a single u19s team to field a team with plenty to spare.
The old u19s competition was viable....I suspect the forces at work hear are not all age related.
If I am correct and the AFL draft has something to do with it, there will be nothing to change it anytime soon.
I advocate an introduction of u20s or 21s. Give the young guys more time with others their own age before playing seniors.

I am sure the change from 19's to 18's back whenever was to tie the comp in with the draft and national champoinships.
Whilst I don't have a problem with going to 20's (or 21's) it has an impact on the juniors comp. If the next level is 20's you cant leave the oldest junior comp at U/17, gap between skinny 17 yo and bigger 20yo is too big.
One solution would be to make the juniors oldest age group U/18, (ties in with last year of school etc) but I suspect it won't happen as 18's is seen as "senior" footy.

Looking at rugby they have two grades of U/20's colts, 1 grade of U/19's colts and have just introduced this year 1 grade of U/18's colts, which I think is a perfect transition approach for kids coming out of school and out of juniors. Note: only about half of the senior Sydney rugby clubs have been able to get the numbers to field a 18's colts team. In fact prior to this year, which saw a lot of work on juniors recruiting, many of the teams struggled to field the full 3 existing colts requirement.

As I mentioned earlier the Sydney rugby clubs put lot of effort into Colts recruiting last year and I estimate there are 3-5 additional team (50 - 70 extra players) in the 20's/19's colts and 5 extra team in the 18's colts.

These additional boys have come from some where, I am sure many were lapsed rugby players but many must have come from the AFL ranks.

[Doctor]

Disappointing to be told that Balmain has pulled out of the Under 19 Div 2 competition as of this week. Leaves only 7 teams in the competition with most of them struggling to field full squads.
We only have 14 clubs fielding teams in Under 19 football in Sydney, (Penno have teams in both Divisions). Somewhere between 300 and 350 participants at this age in Australia's most populated city leaves a lot to be desired. The success of Swans and GWS is masking some real problems at grass roots level.

Was this to do with lack of numbers? That's a real shame if so.

[Mug Punter]

The lack of underage teams suggests all is not that well. Back in the 80s and 90s all SFA teams has U20s and the idea of a SFL club not having an underage team was ludicrous

Yes, the inner city Unis are going well but whilst the game is not going backwards unless you are at Sydney Uni it is hard to say the game is in better shape.

For whatever reasons the alleged explosion in junior development (I know the AFL fiddle the numbers but strong junior clubs like Manly and St Ives are very very strong at the moment) just isn't translating too senior players.

How you can argue the game has never been stronger probably reflects your background more than the facts as the game has probably never been weaker in Western Sydney than it is now, just as it has probably never been stronger at Sydney Uni, UNSW or on the North Shore or Eastern Suburbs. The fact this has all happened under the watch of GWS is an absolute disgrace

Is it cultural? - is AFL in Sydney the team sport that kids play because their mums don't want them getting them getting hurt playing league or union and then they just lose interest? It is seen as a "safe" contact sport, enough to allow a it of aggression but not "too" dangerous. Is AFL seen as junior sport but not a sport you play into adulthood? If so how do you address to drop off rate.Or is this a trend across all junior sport into senior sport with kids alleged lack of activity these days?

In terms of on field I haven't has the chance to assess the level personally this year but I'm hoping to have a report to lodge soon. I'd hope the Swans academy will start filtering through the kids coming through soon. It certainly can't hurt. And for all their pomposity and the fact no one cares about them and the fact they have done nothing to develop their playing squad, Sydney Uni in the NEAFL doesn't hurt either....

[Pmcc2911]

I think your point is valid there appears to be a real east vs west difference in all aspects of junior AFL, wether that is as a result of either Swans vs GWS being better at growing the game I don't think so.
The Greater Sydney JAFL run a well organised comp across the whole of Sydney, not just the east, so the difference cant be attributed to just organisation.
It has to be demographics.
Also agree with your comment about AfL being seen as a safer contact sport. I was discussing this with a friend recently (long time ex SFL player and RL player, who lives in the Hills District). His point on view was that many parents are reacting to growing influence of Polynesian boys playing RL and RU, and who typically grow bigger earlier than anglo boys, and pushing them into AFL as a result.

Also would agree that generally across most sports juniors just aren't progressing to seniors in the same numbers the they used to.

[The Student]

Yes, the inner city Unis are going well but whilst the game is not going backwards unless you are at Sydney Uni it is hard to say the game is in better shape.

I tend to agree. I think we are going swimmingly at the moment.

How you can argue the game has never been stronger probably reflects your background more than the facts as the game has probably never been weaker in Western Sydney than it is now, just as it has probably never been stronger at Sydney Uni, UNSW or on the North Shore or Eastern Suburbs. The fact this has all happened under the watch of GWS is an absolute disgrace

Ah, the daily double - a shot at GWS and Uni in the same post! Must have felt good. Can you tell me what the Swans do for football in Sydney other than provide a product at AFL level?

In terms of on field I haven't has the chance to assess the level personally this year but I'm hoping to have a report to lodge soon.

I'll be waiting with bated breath.

I'd hope the Swans academy will start filtering through the kids coming through soon. It certainly can't hurt. And for all their pomposity and the fact no one cares about them and the fact they have done nothing to develop their playing squad, Sydney Uni in the NEAFL doesn't hurt either....

Who is supposed to care about us? I'd be interested to know which other clubs hold any support outside of the usual players, families and old boys that every club has. Not sure what you mean about developing our squad either - we have seven teams and welcome anyone who is interested in playing to our club. Are you implying that we don't have an Under 13s side or something? Do other clubs have those? Again, you seem to think you know these things so I'd like an answer.

[justabaraker]

At the bottom end it all sounds a bit sicko for AFL in the west according to what you people are writing...kids not signing on, major drop-off in the late teens, lack of junior clubs. Perhaps, based on that, Sydney footy is in the doldrums.
But, at the top end, it looks pretty good to me. I was at the Rep game last weekend and couldn't help but be impressed by 'the best'...Brayden Fowler, Trent Stubbs, McConnell, Browning. And these are guys who aren't playing in Sydney because of the big bucks that are available - seriously quality footballers.
The other side of the Rep team is that it looked to me like we didn't have 22 top-liners available so the bottom few were in the team to make up the numbers.

I was at Henson the previous weekend to see Sydney Uni in the NEAFL - ok, so they're mostly out-of-towners with just a couple of local guns but, you know what, they are playing what might be the best standard of footy ever seen in Sydney below the AFL teams

[unconfuseme]

At the bottom end it all sounds a bit sicko for AFL in the west according to what you people are writing...kids not signing on, major drop-off in the late teens, lack of junior clubs. Perhaps, based on that, Sydney footy is in the doldrums.
But, at the top end, it looks pretty good to me. I was at the Rep game last weekend and couldn't help but be impressed by 'the best'...Brayden Fowler, Trent Stubbs, McConnell, Browning. And these are guys who aren't playing in Sydney because of the big bucks that are available - seriously quality footballers.
The other side of the Rep team is that it looked to me like we didn't have 22 top-liners available so the bottom few were in the team to make up the numbers.

I was at Henson the previous weekend to see Sydney Uni in the NEAFL - ok, so they're mostly out-of-towners with just a couple of local guns but, you know what, they are playing what might be the best standard of footy ever seen in Sydney below the AFL teams

... and nobody cares.

In fairness, they probably have nearly as many people care about them as care about GWS ... threatening for a top 4 spot, they "claimed" 9,000 at Spotless for the Lions game ... how pathetic was that? ...

Having watched some of the game on TV, I reckon they've counted everyone 3 times AND added all of the players, officials, pigeons and seagulls to get that number too!!!

[Doctor]

Disappointing to be told that Balmain has pulled out of the Under 19 Div 2 competition as of this week. Leaves only 7 teams in the competition with most of them struggling to field full squads.
We only have 14 clubs fielding teams in Under 19 football in Sydney, (Penno have teams in both Divisions). Somewhere between 300 and 350 participants at this age in Australia's most populated city leaves a lot to be desired. The success of Swans and GWS is masking some real problems at grass roots level.

My understanding is that the team didn't pull out due to lack of numbers. Happy to be corrected if that's not true.

[Jupiter]

My understanding is that the team didn't pull out due to lack of numbers. Happy to be corrected if that's not true.

Obviously regrettable for all involved. From my memory this would be the 3 or 4th time in 5 or 6 seasons or so Balmain has pulled a side out mid-season. During this period other clubs with resilient programs have been stopped from starting second teams, some clubs have been clearly put in the wrong divisions for political reasons, the Bankstown affair occurred, weird meaningless pathway schemes have come and gone and still there are massive issues with high school age retention in footy. Numerous issues here but my point is youth football has never been on anything but life support and it still is - this ought to be a major priority for AFL in this city. Identify the right clubs, schools and most importnantly volunteers and then give them all the support and resource they need, don't knobble them with politics.

[Pmcc2911]

Not sure what other reason you would pull out mid season, other than issues related to numbers

[The Runt]

... and nobody cares.

In fairness, they probably have nearly as many people care about them as care about GWS ... threatening for a top 4 spot, they "claimed" 9,000 at Spotless for the Lions game ... how pathetic was that? ...

Having watched some of the game on TV, I reckon they've counted everyone 3 times AND added all of the players, officials, pigeons and seagulls to get that number too!!!

And the Sydney swans average home crowd in the early 90s less than 10k we all have to start somewhere, just think if the GWS mob take off like the Swans a good game of footy each week in Sydney how good will that be. So stop bagging and look at the bright side get into the bagging when they are going head to head for the big stuff. And yes I was a member back in those grim days.

[Tom Wills]

Obviously regrettable for all involved. From my memory this would be the 3 or 4th time in 5 or 6 seasons or so Balmain has pulled a side out mid-season. During this period other clubs with resilient programs have been stopped from starting second teams, some clubs have been clearly put in the wrong divisions for political reasons, the Bankstown affair occurred, weird meaningless pathway schemes have come and gone and still there are massive issues with high school age retention in footy. Numerous issues here but my point is youth football has never been on anything but life support and it still is - this ought to be a major priority for AFL in this city. Identify the right clubs, schools and most importnantly volunteers and then give them all the support and resource they need, don't knobble them with politics.

Jupiter - outstanding comment about the need of Support and resources going to most importantly volunteers, who reside in clubs.
With so many AFL staff in development roles there is no focus on the heart of each and every club - the volunteers. Sydney AFL should half the number of staff in shorts and polos, and put some real support into developing clubs, the volunteers. In Business the line is "you may join a company but you leave a boss". In footy analogy is "you join the game (AFL) but leave a club (or volunteer coach)".

[unconfuseme]

And the Sydney swans average home crowd in the early 90s less than 10k we all have to start somewhere, just think if the GWS mob take off like the Swans a good game of footy each week in Sydney how good will that be. So stop bagging and look at the bright side get into the bagging when they are going head to head for the big stuff. And yes I was a member back in those grim days.

Apples and oranges ... how many tens of millions were the AFL pumping int the Swans back then? How many support staff and development staff and priority picks were the Swans receiving back then, and how many games did they even threaten to win back then ...?

If GWS were travelling like that, there would ONLY be seagulls at the games, even the WAGS would give it a miss!

The concern is that they STILL have no idea how to begin to claim the heart and souls of what should be their support base ...

Jupiter has summed it up well!

[Mug Punter]

... and nobody cares.

In fairness, they probably have nearly as many people care about them as care about GWS ... threatening for a top 4 spot, they "claimed" 9,000 at Spotless for the Lions game ... how pathetic was that? ...

Having watched some of the game on TV, I reckon they've counted everyone 3 times AND added all of the players, officials, pigeons and seagulls to get that number too!!!

Nobody outside the blazer brigade gives a stuff about Uni but to a degree that holds true for all clubs in Sydney

Re GWS I have been there several times now and I must say it is a surreal experience. Ironically I quite enjoy it as it is completely stress free football but the incessant noise from the muppet responsible for "atmosphere" is annoying. There are really only about 1,000 proper fans in their "active supporters area" where they place all their supporters so that the TV cameras can pan to give the illusion of atmosphere.

I know Sydney loves a winner but I really have my doubts about them garnering genuine support in Sydney and I think that whilst they may get 20,000 when they play us and the odd 15,000 crowd against a top Melbourne team who is playing well they may have baselined at 10,000 and that is not enough.

And I think they fiddle their crowds

Time will tell if they can grow their support but I really do fear Sydney has made their call re them and they are just a bit of a sideshow act.

Of course if they really tried to build some links with the local football community rather than investing in Manly it might help

[Mug Punter]

At the bottom end it all sounds a bit sicko for AFL in the west according to what you people are writing...kids not signing on, major drop-off in the late teens, lack of junior clubs. Perhaps, based on that, Sydney footy is in the doldrums.
But, at the top end, it looks pretty good to me. I was at the Rep game last weekend and couldn't help but be impressed by 'the best'...Brayden Fowler, Trent Stubbs, McConnell, Browning. And these are guys who aren't playing in Sydney because of the big bucks that are available - seriously quality footballers.
The other side of the Rep team is that it looked to me like we didn't have 22 top-liners available so the bottom few were in the team to make up the numbers.

I was at Henson the previous weekend to see Sydney Uni in the NEAFL - ok, so they're mostly out-of-towners with just a couple of local guns but, you know what, they are playing what might be the best standard of footy ever seen in Sydney below the AFL teams

I know that I sometimes give Sydney Uni a hard time on here but I so think their NEAFL side probably serves a purpose - I guess it gives the late developer an alternate route to AFL football. OK at the moment it is mainly out of towners but hopefully the next Dane Rampe can stay in Sydney. I think two teams was overkill but one is sustainable long term.

It does have a flow on affect to the local comp though but I guess long term it is worth it, for those Swans academy players that don't quite the Draft I guess they can make a bee-line for Newtown and if Sydney Uni can offer them some help with their study then I guess it makes sense to foster elite level sport.

As an aside I can see the ACT only having one team in the NEAFL next year, Ainslie, and that makes sense too, their licensed club should be able to bankroll a decent tilt. Four AFL sides, one NT Rep side, one Sydney one ACT, one Gold Coast and two Brisbane teams. Think a 10 team comp works quite well actually