Is the Sydney Competition the strongest it has ever been?

[Pekay]

Still working out what this has to do with the Sydney competition

Dead right. The Giants have shown they want very little to do with local football.

[ShortHalfHead]

Dead right. The Giants have shown they want very little to do with local football.

Yes, shame really. I, like many, could have warmed to them...especially being a Carlton supporter .

Remember attending a meeting by GWS a year before they were granted a licence. Told us of wonderful plans to engage with the local community. Didn't realise that meant the Northern Beaches.

[Mug Punter]

Still working out what this has to do with the Sydney competition

You serious that GWS has nothing to do with Sydney football?

Well at least GWS seem to share your opinion....

[Mug Punter]

Yes, shame really. I, like many, could have warmed to them...especially being a Carlton supporter .

Remember attending a meeting by GWS a year before they were granted a licence. Told us of wonderful plans to engage with the local community. Didn't realise that meant the Northern Beaches.

It's a lost opportunity and one they needed to get right at the get go.

They are now in their fourth year, it is entirely possible that their pitifully low crowds have reached their natural level. I can't see any grat reserves of untapped talent there.

I have been to a coujple of games out there and whilst it is pleasant and entirely stress free as a neutral, albeit somewhat annoying how the muppet in charge of matchday tries to create an atmosphere, it is the most surreal atmospehere at a sporting event i have ever encountered...

I know, I know, judge em in 20 years bit do ytou really think the Melbourne establishment will let them win three flags in a row from 2018-20? Because their list os that scary....

[Pekay]

Yes, shame really. I, like many, could have warmed to them...especially being a Carlton supporter .

Remember attending a meeting by GWS a year before they were granted a licence. Told us of wonderful plans to engage with the local community. Didn't realise that meant the Northern Beaches.

I've said it before, the interchange wing at the Showground is too far west for them.

[unconfuseme]

As much as I appreciate an evidence based reply, on closer inspection some of the crowd photos are taken during day whilst others at night. I can see the run on banner in the last one. The crowd looks very light-on but a photo taken before the first bounce whilst many of the spectators are not seated cannot be seriously submitted into evidence.

Valid point! ... must have been about 5,000 queuing outside who missed the the first bounce!!!

No-one in the second tier of seating, and the rest about 1/4 full would seem right ... and then all of the scarves on seats.

Happy to concede that Collingwood have more fans (about a thousand) than Hawthorn DHL, but geez, you really are grasping at straws!

Even the Collingwood fans agree, they have no interest in GWS.

When they played them the other week, both teams chasing a top 4 spot, the pies recorded their smallest home crowd of the season, with 25,000 paying feral members finding something better to do in Melbourne that day - that's a challenge in itself!!!

[Norris Lurker]

Last Saturday was a shocker, but other than that the crowds at GWS are clearly up on previous seasons; albeit off a low base. The cheer squad end is always well populated, but it thins out as you go around the ground. Capacity is about 27,000; it was about a third full for the Brisbane game and a bit less than that against North - I've got no problem with either of those crowd figures.
And for a bit of Sydney perspective, even that poor crowd was only 200 short of Manly v Wests Tigers.

I just wish the AFL would stop scheduling them on Saturday afternoon. I'm probably the only person who cares, but the frequency of clashes with AFL Sydney games is giving me the @@@@s.

[Jupiter]

Last Saturday was a shocker, but other than that the crowds at GWS are clearly up on previous seasons; albeit off a low base. The cheer squad end is always well populated, but it thins out as you go around the ground. Capacity is about 27,000; it was about a third full for the Brisbane game and a bit less than that against North - I've got no problem with either of those crowd figures.
And for a bit of Sydney perspective, even that poor crowd was only 200 short of Manly v Wests Tigers.

I just wish the AFL would stop scheduling them on Saturday afternoon. I'm probably the only person who cares, but the frequency of clashes with AFL Sydney games is giving me the @@@@s.

No mate you make a great point which goes to all of the issues raised by folks on here. They SHOULD take the local competitions fixtures into consideration but that is just a pipe dream of mine about the way the world could be.

[Coastal Boy]

Valid point! ... must have been about 5,000 queuing outside who missed the the first bounce!!!

No-one in the second tier of seating, and the rest about 1/4 full would seem right ... and then all of the scarves on seats.

Happy to concede that Collingwood have more fans (about a thousand) than Hawthorn DHL, but geez, you really are grasping at straws!

Even the Collingwood fans agree, they have no interest in GWS.

When they played them the other week, both teams chasing a top 4 spot, the pies recorded their smallest home crowd of the season, with 25,000 paying feral members finding something better to do in Melbourne that day - that's a challenge in itself!!!

Where's anyone's vision here? The many swans supporters who disparage GWS wouldn't have a local team to support if it wasn't for a visionary decision back in the early 80s. Rugby league and Aussie rules were on about par back then. But over the last 30 years the now AFL has grown into a truly national competition and has left the NRL in their wake.

The AFL had little choice but introduce the GWS. Western Sydney is the 3rd most populous region in Australia behind Sydney and Melbourne. I remember going to a talk some years back and hearing that national corporations who sponsor the AFL like Toyota keep asking about the Sydney market and if the AFL wants more dollars from them they have to infiltrate the Sydney market further. A game in Sydney every week is the start. So all and sundry can throw pot shots at the AFL but the extra TV game each week and the dollars thus generated are most likely paying for themselves. Besides, there are no other markets big enough for a team. Not Canberra, Tasmania or Darwin. The introduction of a tassie team for example would not sell another pay TV subscription.... It's already AFL saturated.

The AFL wants more supporters from Sydney and more NSW players drafted. The local comp has always been irrelevant to them. It's time for people to accept this and move on.

[chatovadafloor]

You serious that GWS has nothing to do with Sydney football?

Well at least GWS seem to share your opinion....

This subject is he strongest Sydney competition. Gws aren't in it and the crowds at their games have no bearing on the Sydney competition. If the thread was " how big are gws crowds" then that would make more sense

[mountainsofpain]

Dead right. The Giants have shown they want very little to do with local football.

The Giants are idiots.

They have been gifted an entire, massive geographical reason and it hasn't occurred to them to engage with that region to build support for themselves.

[unconfuseme]

It's quite simple.

GWS and/or the NSW AFL - the line has been blurred for about 10 years, since Holmes started auditioning for the part as President, and all his minions started jockeying for job security - "deserve" nothing, other than a role in Yes Minister.

They have however earned every plaudit they receive in here.

Yep, has nothing to do with the strength of the Sydney Comp ... would be the farthest thing from the thoughts of the powers that be, they may not even be aware that there is one!!

[saviour01]

Anyone else see this article in the Australian yesterday? ?They are proving more expensive than our broad forecasts suggested,? he said. Did the AFL really expect them to turn up, do nothing with the local community and have a swans level of support instantly?

AFL cash drain to new clubs could delay Etihad Stadium purchase

The Australian
June 25, 2015 12:00AM

The drain of AFL cash to Greater Western Sydney and Gold Coast is not only taking its toll on other financially struggling clubs, but could delay or even prevent the early buyout of Etihad Stadium.

Central to the financial stability of the league and its clubs is the AFL?s Future Fund, which the league values at $89.4 million, but has never held more than its current cash value of $63m.

The cash amount is less than some clubs believed it was. They say that is, in part, because of the massive additional funding to both the Giants and Suns.

As The Australian revealed in a series of exclusive reports earlier this month, up to eight clubs have forecast losses for 2015 with the competition carrying combined club debts of a record $91.5 million.

AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan told The Australian yesterday that the decision to put second teams into Queensland and NSW was proving to be more demanding than expected. ?They are proving more expensive than our broad forecasts suggested,? he said.

While the AFL has always said the move north would prove challenging, it is the first time a league official has acknowledged the Suns and Giants are pulling more money from consolidated revenue than expected. However, he said that the league?s initial budget of $200m over five years to establish the clubs would be close to being ?on the money?. McLachlan also stressed that the financial wellbeing of all 18 clubs was an AFL priority. A selling point to clubs in initially supporting the expansion was that the two clubs would not need a huge amount of outside funding after five years.

The early purchase of Etihad Stadium by the league is viewed by tenant clubs as being vital to their long-term existence due to their poor current deals with the privately owned venue. Former North Melbourne chief executive Eugene Arocca famously once said it was tempting to lock the gates at Etihad to keep fans away, ?because we?d make more money that way?.

The AFL would have been better placed to purchase the stadium outright before they take ownership for virtually nothing in 2025, if their ultimate aim of being debt-free and having $100m in its Future Fund by next year, was met.

However, McLachlan said the acquisition of Etihad was not in any way dependent on the Future Fund. The Future Fund is currently $37m short of its projection, and could be further adrift owing to the financial instability of the clubs. Between 2011 and 2012, the fund appeared to have diminished based on the past two AFL annual reports, which said combined profits in 2013 and 2014 of $29.1m would be reinvested in the Future Fund.

As late as 2013, the AFL continued to report a Future Fund with capital of $89.4m, but the confusion to clubs surrounds the cash element compared to what has been stated in annual reports.

The Future Fund was drained in 2011 when, under Andrew Demetriou, the league borrowed $55m over 13 months, chiefly to support the blowout costs associated with the expansion clubs.

A league spokesman yesterday emphasised the importance of the Future Fund and referred to the most recent annual report, which says in part: ?An amount of $89.4m ($82m plus interest of $7.4m) is held in the future fund reserve.?

As far back as 2006 when the AFL released the influential blueprint Next Generation: Securing the future of Australian Football, the idea of a Future Fund was developed to fast-track the purchase of the Docklands stadium.

The Next Generation document outlined the plan that the AFL Commission would allocate $82m over five years from 2007 to establish a Future Fund.

?One of the aims of the Future Fund is to strengthen the asset base of the competition and allow us to consider future investments to secure new revenue streams for the competition. An example of such an asset is Telstra Dome (now Etihad Stadium),? it said.

In March, 2013, AFL Commission chairman Mike Fitzpatrick confirmed the league?s preference was to buy Etihad Stadium earlier than 2025. But he said the league and the stadium?s owner Melbourne Stadiums Ltd, remained some distance apart on a price.

According to AFL annual reports the league has spent a minimum of $139m on the Suns and Giants since 2010.

The AFL is reported to have offered as much as $225m-$250m to buy Etihad. It is believed the superannuation companies that own Etihad are looking for a selling price much closer to $300m.

[Pmcc2911]

Getting back on topic, we are now just seeing the beginning of a long pipeline of academy players coming into the Sydney domestic comp.
We all talk about Mills and Heeny but for every Mills and Heeny there are 2 or 3 boys who have had the benefit of 5/6 years of quality coaching.
A lot of them now are in the U/17, U/19 system which will flow through to Seniors (and NEAFL). Some already have moved up to seniors etc.
The other thing to remember there are another couple of hundred kids in the system who will come though over the next couple of years.

So is the Sydney comp better, certainly the U/19's is and I suspect the seniors are as well.
Both of those grades will continue to get better and better reach year.

[Mug Punter]

Getting back on topic, we are now just seeing the beginning of a long pipeline of academy players coming into the Sydney domestic comp.
We all talk about Mills and Heeny but for every Mills and Heeny there are 2 or 3 boys who have had the benefit of 5/6 years of quality coaching.
A lot of them now are in the U/17, U/19 system which will flow through to Seniors (and NEAFL). Some already have moved up to seniors etc.
The other thing to remember there are another couple of hundred kids in the system who will come though over the next couple of years.

So is the Sydney comp better, certainly the U/19's is and I suspect the seniors are as well.
Both of those grades will continue to get better and better reach year.

You'd hope that this will be the case but the problem seems rather entrenched.

A lot of these kids, however, will probably step up straight into senior footy so whilst it will certainly help the senior comp I hope it also helps the U19 programmes of clubs.