Cheating

[Sanecow]

Is cheating OK when Swans players get away with it?

[Xie Shan]

No-one wants to field this one? I thought it was a good question.

Context please? No incidents come to mind where any Swans players have cheated...

I'd say no, it wouldn't be OK.

[ScottH]

Cheating is fine!!!! (as long as you get away with it.)

[ROK Lobster]

Well Saddo is now at Carlton.

[katie-scarlett]

is cheating still cheating if you get away with it?

like the that 'does a falling tree make a noise when it falls but no-one hears it?' dilemma (ok i know someone else can explain that little analogy better than me ha..)

[graystar]

Re: Cheating

Originally posted by Sanecow
Is cheating OK when Swans players get away with it?

nope, makes things go sour look at soccer these days more diving than a matty lloyd first qtr.

[sharp9]

No.

Define cheating, though. My definition (especially in relation to free kicks) is exagerating illegal contact ehough so that the ump sees it is not cheating, this is akin to APPEALING for a free, a la J. Bolton a small scrag in the face which affected his going for the ball, but which would have gone unnoticed if he hadn't put his hand to his face. The ump (on the other side) was probably thinking "did he get him in the face then?....yeah, he did." that's OK with me.

Diving after non-illegal contact is, obviously, cheating and is not alright by anyone, ever, for mine. Diving after the absolute minutest touch which MIGHT have technically been illegal (Lloyd the other night) is also cheating because it made a touch in the back look like a push in the back when it was not.

In my opinion throwing oneself to the ground after no or even minimal contact should be a 50 metre penalty. There was one LLoyd free when Barry just stood his ground and Lloyd backed into him, waited for the contact to the back and threw himself to the ground. Not good enough.

[desredandwhite]

Everyone cheats to some extent, especially if they think they can get away with it.

Time-wasting. Trying to improve the angle or distance for a shot on goal. Intefering with an opponent's marking attempt. Applying bumps and nudges when jostling for position. Technically, some of these things are so grey that they could be seen as going against the rules.. But if you get away with it, would it be just taking advantage of loopholes?

Naturally, a certain level of bias applies here. ie: Matthew Lloyd is a cheating, diving, whinging sook who is unduly favoured by biased umpires. Barry Hall is a smart footballer, who is able to apply judicious amounts of bodywork and positioning in order to extract a thoroughly-deserved free kick from the umpires.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by sydfan83
Context please? No incidents come to mind where any Swans players have cheated...

One example: Every week, Kirk gets away with it.

Holding, etc.

It would drive me nuts to see an opposition player do that.

Originally posted by katie-scarlett
is cheating still cheating if you get away with it?

If you take steroids and get away with it, is it OK?

[katie-scarlett]

Originally posted by Sanecow
One example: Every week, Kirk gets away with it.

Umpire's fault for not watching their game properly?

Originally posted by Sanecow
If you take steroids and get away with it, is it OK?

Touche.

[Lucky Knickers]

Originally posted by desredandwhite
Trying to improve the angle or distance for a shot on goal.

Standard in MOLs shot for goal routine.

Cheating to me is doping the opposition, putting extra players on the field, bribing umpires, bribing time keepers, taking performance enhancing drugs, deliberately throwing games etc. It actions that determine the outcome of a game before it's played.

All that other stuff like bumping and trying to get away with things on the field is gamesmanship IMO.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by Sanecow
It would drive me nuts to see an opposition player do that.

Holding up a player is such a delicate issue. I think you'll find at least two other players there trying to do the same (Campo and their number 8). Sometimes it extends to actual hands as well, but its only really annoying to me when the player doing the holding isn't even watching or facing the ball.

I also dont think that in a fast contact sport like aussie rules, not adhering correctly to the rules can be classed as 'cheating'. In say golf or cricket, cheating is far more obvious and clear. Hence the reason for the high number of umpires in AFL to watch the actions and pick up digressions. Certainly I dont think Lloyd is a 'cheat' for diving around like he does. He just tries convince the umps in his own way. Bazza does it by blowing up at them. Lloyd is more effective. If they made 'diving' illegal, Lloyd would stop it straight away.

[hammo]

Buchanan's been involved in a few dives lately, not to mention cramps etc

I wouldn't call it cheating though. Gamesmanship maybe.

[NMWBloods]

Okay, so when our players take a dive it's "gamesmanship" but when other players do it it's "cheating"...?

[Sanecow]

I'm actually a big fan of on-field "cheating".

Punches in the guts, pulling leg hairs or arriving late to a pack and punching people in the head is all part of footy. Biting or otherwise jiggling your opponents genitals is slightly too far though I reckon.

It drives me nuts when the opposition does it but I would love to have a diver of the class of Lloyd or Wanganeen inside our 50 in the same way as I loved the work of "Scratch" Dunkley and "Morning breath" Carter back in the day.

If there is one thing wrong with Leo Barry's efforts in round one, it is that they lacked in subtlety.