I'm done

[mcs]

Look, do we think Chris Fagan is ruthless? I don’t think so. He has built a team over the last 7 or so years and they are very good and peaked at the right end of the season. We peaked early and didn’t play consistently well towards the latter part- look at our performance at Port a few games back- equally shocking! I’m not absolving Horse and his assistants but this is squarely on the players. They lost concentration, forgot the game plan, didn’t fight together for the ball and didn’t apply the required pressure. And when they had the ball there was no leading in the forward 50 so they kept bombing it with the result that they were consistently out marked and the ball came back with a vengeance!

As for Horse’s presser- he was totally shattered so what could we expect? Anger? He clearly loves our club and our players- emotions are running at the max for all of us. Now is the time to get behind the club, or are we just fair weather supporters?

Surely being genuine angry, sad, disappointed, pissed off - whatever you want to insert there doesn't make you a 'fair weather supporter'.

This is not a shot at anyone on here, or anyone in particular. Just my thoughts.

I still think our club and some of the fanbase continue to struggle to adjust expectations from being a club where being 'in the hunt' was a massive achievement, to one where the only outcome in a situation like our season (i.e. just about everything right and by and large we were fantastic) is to lift the cup. I.e. the ultimate aim is adding Cups to the collection, not almost adding them.

As I've said before, if you turn up on the day, play pretty well and get beat - that is one thing. But this is the second time in three years we have been what I would call all but humiliated on the biggest day of the season.

And all we get is 'we'll do our best to be there abouts again' when it comes to comments from within the club. I get they are hurting and straight after the game responses are just that. But over the Summer, I want to see a proper change in that mindset - I want them to be laying down a marker, saying the only way to make up for the disaster yesterday is to taste Premiership success. This feeling we are happy just to be there (noticeable in the comments during the week by some players and staff too) still feels like it dominates how we think sometimes as a footy club.

Our club off the field has done so much to build itself into a modern powerhouse - but yet it still has this nagging feeling that it doesn't yet believe it truly belongs in the upper echelon of the competition. To do that, you have to be ruthless, and you have to take the opportunities when they come. We would have had to play almighty well yesterday to win - same in 2022. But we didn't even give a whimper - there is a huge mental challenge there to overcome whatever it is inhibiting us, and I think it has to come from a genuine change in at least the 'presented' mindset of the club and its ambitions.

[Industrial Fan]

The thing that’s really bothered me here is what you’ve alluded to. This is by far the worst of our recent GF losses.

2022 the team was young and on the rise - we even had Warner play a great game so it was easy to come away thinking they’ll learn, get stronger and atone for the loss.

Yesterday I don’t think we had a winner on the park. There are no green shoots, only trauma exacerbated by trauma.

It might come across as dramatic but I think we need to write this team off as contending. Similar to Collingwood in 2003 and Geelong in the 90’s we need a broom through the place.

To me, Rampe and Lloyd as the 8th and 9th players to ever go 4-0 for grand finals will not help us win a grand final.

Heeney, Papley, with 3-0 the same. I hope they’re not part of our next grand final team as they can’t handle the pressure.

the players that were smashed in both 22/24 would be unlikely to recover - thinking McCartin, Hayward, McInerny and McLean.

looking at our profile then I believe we’re out of contention for the next 4-5 years at least. That leaves us rebuilding around Blakey, Errol, Oli, Rowbottom, Chad and McDonald.

Assuming Parker is off to the kangaroos I would put Chad and Logan on the trade table now with a view to clean out the trauma and only carry those 4 players into our next proper challenge. Maybe Oli on the table too if the right bid came in.

We might end up in the wilderness as a result but it’s better to take the risk than sit through what’s happened in 22/24 again.

[mcs]

It might come across as dramatic but I think we need to write this team off as contending.

We have the talent no doubt. but whether this group now can collectively ever build the mental fortitude to challenge - that is a huge question mark for mine.

I'm not sure I'd go down the clean out route you suggest Industrial, but I do think we need serious changes somewhere (personnel, or the coaching room, or a combo) to make the difference. Or maybe we truly just do need the right 1 or 2 different voices in the mix in the coaching group.

[Blood Fever]

I have

It's your right to do so Barry but as an old time Victorian South supporter, that's just fair weather stuff.

[Dooloo]

I left the game yesterday vowing to walk away from it all and cancel my membership, angry and totally disillusioned. I've now had a chance to put things into perspective and lets be honest, its only a game of football. I mean if this is the worst thing that can happen to us this year, then we are indeed fortunate. I have 3 family members, and a couple of close friends all battling cancer, with the prognosis not promising, I myself have only just recently finished treatment, and it really puts things into perspective. We are so lucky to have a constant and competitive side over the years. Yes sadly we seem to fall over at the last hurdle, but have to keep looking forward.

20 years ago, all I wanted was to see a premiership from the club I've followed for over 50 years, , I've been extremely fortunate, I've been to 2. I have some wonderful memories from these games, and that's why I'm not going anywhere. I truly feel Horse. He is suffering more than anyone person, as he is the face of the club. people don't realise just how difficult all this is on him and I'm sure his family as well. A week a ago we were singing his praises. I suppose a week is a long I n football. But regardless of yesterday's outcome, I'm still 100% behind him

[Industrial Fan]

I’m sure it’s difficult on Longmire. We’re all invested as fans but he lives it.

he’s been a great asset and has brought through many players to be better people let alone players. He’s been a great servant of the club.

Having said that, his time is up.

[Blood Fever]

I left the game yesterday vowing to walk away from it all and cancel my membership, angry and totally disillusioned. I've now had a chance to put things into perspective and lets be honest, its only a game of football. I mean if this is the worst thing that can happen to us this year, then we are indeed fortunate. I have 3 family members, and a couple of close friends all battling cancer, with the prognosis not promising, I myself have only just recently finished treatment, and it really puts things into perspective. We are so lucky to have a constant and competitive side over the years. Yes we seem to fall over at the last hurdle,

20 years ago, all i wanted was to see a premiership from the club I've followed for over 50 years, , I've been extremely fortunate, I've been to 2. I have some wonderful memories from these games, and more and I'm not going anywhere. I truly feel Horse. He is suffering more than anyone person, as he is the face of the club. people don't realise just how difficult all this is on him and I'm sure his family as well. Regardless of the outcome, I'm still 100% behind him

Great post. Agree on many fronts and all the best to you and your family.

[Industrial Fan]

Watching Chads post game interview I think he needs to go.

compare and contrast to Errol - Chad is almost whimsical. He’s in post match waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting.

[barry]

It's your right to do so Barry but as an old time Victorian South supporter, that's just fair weather stuff.

You can call me whatever you like, but fair weather ain't one of them. Even on RWO, my join date is 2003. That's over 21 years of rough and tumble online.

[mcs]

Watching Chads post game interview I think he needs to go.

compare and contrast to Errol - Chad is almost whimsical. He’s in post match waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting.

I think Chad could be an absolute top 2 or 3 player superstar if someone got his mind right, and opened his eyes to realising that the other side of the game (the dirty stuff/defending etc) were as important as the showy side of it. I know he would lose some from his attacking prowess, but at the moment - he looks great when we are on top, but good sides work him out, and he only has influence on a contest when its too late.

He isn't alone of course - but if it was me, I'd be discreetly seeing what West Coast or Freo might offer for a trade this year for him. I'd hate to see him go, as love watching him play - but as a team, I suspect we would be better off cashing in, and using the currency we get to either find a better fit for the overall midfield group (we have plenty to fill the flashy outside roles in some form for mine) that can make it more balanced.

Of course, very happy for him to stay too - but he is at the point now that he needs to take responsibility as part of the midfield group. He isn't alone in that regard either - the whole group almost needs to spend a long hard summer reflecting on what went so badly wrong, and what each of them individually is going to do to begin to make amends.

[KTigers]

You can call me whatever you like, but fair weather ain't one of them. Even on RWO, my join date is 2003. That's over 21 years of rough and tumble online.

Brutal.

[MattW]

I left the game yesterday vowing to walk away from it all and cancel my membership, angry and totally disillusioned. I've now had a chance to put things into perspective and lets be honest, its only a game of football. I mean if this is the worst thing that can happen to us this year, then we are indeed fortunate. I have 3 family members, and a couple of close friends all battling cancer, with the prognosis not promising, I myself have only just recently finished treatment, and it really puts things into perspective. We are so lucky to have a constant and competitive side over the years. Yes sadly we seem to fall over at the last hurdle, but have to keep looking forward.

20 years ago, all I wanted was to see a premiership from the club I've followed for over 50 years, , I've been extremely fortunate, I've been to 2. I have some wonderful memories from these games, and that's why I'm not going anywhere. I truly feel Horse. He is suffering more than anyone person, as he is the face of the club. people don't realise just how difficult all this is on him and I'm sure his family as well. A week a ago we were singing his praises. I suppose a week is a long I n football. But regardless of yesterday's outcome, I'm still 100% behind him

This is a really good post, thanks. You're absolutely right. No-one would feel this more than Longmire. He carries himself very well under enormous pressure. I hope he's OK.

[Roadrunner]

Surely being genuine angry, sad, disappointed, pissed off - whatever you want to insert there doesn't make you a 'fair weather supporter'.

This is not a shot at anyone on here, or anyone in particular. Just my thoughts.

I still think our club and some of the fanbase continue to struggle to adjust expectations from being a club where being 'in the hunt' was a massive achievement, to one where the only outcome in a situation like our season (i.e. just about everything right and by and large we were fantastic) is to lift the cup. I.e. the ultimate aim is adding Cups to the collection, not almost adding them.

As I've said before, if you turn up on the day, play pretty well and get beat - that is one thing. But this is the second time in three years we have been what I would call all but humiliated on the biggest day of the season.

And all we get is 'we'll do our best to be there abouts again' when it comes to comments from within the club. I get they are hurting and straight after the game responses are just that. But over the Summer, I want to see a proper change in that mindset - I want them to be laying down a marker, saying the only way to make up for the disaster yesterday is to taste Premiership success. This feeling we are happy just to be there (noticeable in the comments during the week by some players and staff too) still feels like it dominates how we think sometimes as a footy club.

Our club off the field has done so much to build itself into a modern powerhouse - but yet it still has this nagging feeling that it doesn't yet believe it truly belongs in the upper echelon of the competition. To do that, you have to be ruthless, and you have to take the opportunities when they come. We would have had to play almighty well yesterday to win - same in 2022. But we didn't even give a whimper - there is a huge mental challenge there to overcome whatever it is inhibiting us, and I think it has to come from a genuine change in at least the 'presented' mindset of the club and its ambitions.

Being angry seldom solves issues. Learning from the hurt and the pain is a better way to find solutions. I’m of the opinion that there’s a confidence issue in this team and a concentration lapse when the opposition seize momentum. In addition, we need some talls who can take some overhead marks more consistently and who can be a bit more physical. We have Logan, Hayden and Joel upfront. Logan was injured, totally ineffective and went off. Hayden was needed in the ruck and a bit all over the ground. That left only Joel as a permanent tall in our forward line, which clearly isn’t going to cut it. So we are defo 1 really good tall short. I believe this disrupted the team and the boys panicked and bombed the ball, which of course is the worst option they could have done. We really need a target forward up front to help out- others will be able to suggest who we could get to fill this role but I believe that’s a problem needing fixing.

[Roadrunner]

I left the game yesterday vowing to walk away from it all and cancel my membership, angry and totally disillusioned. I've now had a chance to put things into perspective and lets be honest, its only a game of football. I mean if this is the worst thing that can happen to us this year, then we are indeed fortunate. I have 3 family members, and a couple of close friends all battling cancer, with the prognosis not promising, I myself have only just recently finished treatment, and it really puts things into perspective. We are so lucky to have a constant and competitive side over the years. Yes sadly we seem to fall over at the last hurdle, but have to keep looking forward.

20 years ago, all I wanted was to see a premiership from the club I've followed for over 50 years, , I've been extremely fortunate, I've been to 2. I have some wonderful memories from these games, and that's why I'm not going anywhere. I truly feel Horse. He is suffering more than anyone person, as he is the face of the club. people don't realise just how difficult all this is on him and I'm sure his family as well. A week an otally ago we were singing his praises. I suppose a week is a long I n football. But regardless of yesterday's outcome, I'm still 100% behind him

Totally agree with you mate- wishing you and family all the very best and full recoveries!
of course, we are all very disappointed in our team’s performance but let’s also not forget that we had some great games during the year. Winning the flag is the aim and the boys need to toughen up and not be satisfied with anything less. Too many went missing and we don’t really know why! That’s what bugs me- I just don’t get it.

[Agent 86]

The thing that’s really bothered me here is what you’ve alluded to. This is by far the worst of our recent GF losses.

2022 the team was young and on the rise - we even had Warner play a great game so it was easy to come away thinking they’ll learn, get stronger and atone for the loss.

Yesterday I don’t think we had a winner on the park. There are no green shoots, only trauma exacerbated by trauma.

It might come across as dramatic but I think we need to write this team off as contending. Similar to Collingwood in 2003 and Geelong in the 90’s we need a broom through the place.

To me, Rampe and Lloyd as the 8th and 9th players to ever go 4-0 for grand finals will not help us win a grand final.

Heeney, Papley, with 3-0 the same. I hope they’re not part of our next grand final team as they can’t handle the pressure.

the players that were smashed in both 22/24 would be unlikely to recover - thinking McCartin, Hayward, McInerny and McLean.

looking at our profile then I believe we’re out of contention for the next 4-5 years at least. That leaves us rebuilding around Blakey, Errol, Oli, Rowbottom, Chad and McDonald.

Assuming Parker is off to the kangaroos I would put Chad and Logan on the trade table now with a view to clean out the trauma and only carry those 4 players into our next proper challenge. Maybe Oli on the table too if the right bid came in.

We might end up in the wilderness as a result but it’s better to take the risk than sit through what’s happened in 22/24 again.

They were all equally poor (Ramps Lloyd, Heeney & Paps) - but i'd back them in most times. On the other hand, Rampe is getting on & it's starting to stick out. Jake can be very good or go missing in action. The other 2 are match winners. Both Heeney and Paps were a big part of us even making the GF. They can't do it all.

I'd be playing hardball with the Chad. It's gonna cost whoever wants him. Logan probably missed a chance to get something decent in return, doesn't scream out as someone who's gonna become a star.