Round 11: Swans v Demons.

[lwjoyner]

First of all what was the free kick count. i stopped watching at half time could not watch the rabble. My wife tells me at 3 qrt time the difference was 34 points or thereabouts and it ended up 10 goals, that is not the swans I know. Is COX the problem seems like this year is a bit like the year that Eade got the sack, but we had Roosie ready with JL to come in as assistant. Looks like all of us here think the playing style that Cox is trying is wrong. . Defense wins all sports. NRL, Soccer, Netball etc. Also ,he had a big say in the draft look where that's got us, A reserve side that can't win a game and with no replacements ready. So, COX be brave and look for next year Try Snell, Buller and perhaps Edwardes when his is over his injury. Forget the players that other clubs let go.

[UUaswan]

First of all what was the free kick count. i stopped watching at half time could not watch the rabble. My wife tells me at 3 qrt time the difference was 34 points or thereabouts and it ended up 10 goals, that is not the swans I know. Is COX the problem seems like this year is a bit like the year that Eade got the sack, but we had Roosie ready with JL to come in as assistant. Looks like all of us here think the playing style that Cox is trying is wrong. . Defense wins all sports. NRL, Soccer, Netball etc. Also ,he had a big say in the draft look where that's got us, A reserve side that can't win a game and with no replacements ready. So, COX be brave and look for next year Try Snell, Buller and perhaps Edwardes when his is over his injury. Forget the players that other clubs let go.

We have limited depth and its been tested
We had the same depth last year but no injuries.

JL never dropped anyone, you don't make statements when your 4-7, you make them when your 10-1.

But also, attack, defensive footy doesnt win flags and swarm the ball, our stoppage setup is woeful.

We are simply nowhere when the ball hits the deck, they guard space and try to limit damage but it just looks like we are chading a8s all day

[Kafka's Ghost]

I think we should rethink Rowie's game. For most of the game he was played on the half forward flank. He is a clearance beast yet he hardly went in for a centre bounce and was badly missed at around the ground contests. That was a coach's move.

He’s likely playing injured, given that situation.

[UUaswan]

He’s likely playing injured, given that situation.

I'd say Sore over injured..... Like 80% of the midfielders in the comp

Pick the ball up then get on the outside instead of trying to tackle the bloke with it. Only need to look at Hanners for someone that bashed and crashed until he couldnt

[Roadrunner]

He’s likely playing injured, given that situation.

You are probably right- I thought he was way below his normal self, but he had plenty of mates! The game was an embarrassment- it looked like men against boys. There’s something not right here. Of course we all know about our injuries and suspensions but still it doesn’t explain the shambles we witnessed. This team looked like a wooden spooner and surely this is unacceptable. It won’t happen but I would drop a heap of players to the reserves- Roberts, Ollie, Wilbur, Hamling, Lloyd, Corey, McLean and maybe Campbell. I don’t care who we bring in to replace them- Melican, JMac and even Francis who at least tries to use the ball. Honestly, bring in Buller and a few kids, as there’s not much difference in being flogged by 15 goals or 10, as long as the boys try to play like a team. Otherwise we may as well write the season off.

Rant over- but this game was so bad that I’m afraid big changes are needed to show the boys that this can’t be tolerated any longer. Words fail me now!

[liz]

You are probably right- I thought he was way below his normal self, but he had plenty of mates! The game was an embarrassment- it looked like men against boys. There’s something not right here. Of course we all know about our injuries and suspensions but still it doesn’t explain the shambles we witnessed. This team looked like a wooden spooner and surely this is unacceptable. It won’t happen but I would drop a heap of players to the reserves- Roberts, Ollie, Wilbur, Hamling, Lloyd, Corey, McLean and maybe Campbell. I don’t care who we bring in to replace them- Melican, JMac and even Francis who at least tries to use the ball. Honestly, bring in Buller and a few kids, as there’s not much difference in being flogged by 15 goals or 10, as long as the boys try to play like a team. Otherwise we may as well write the season off.

Rant over- but this game was so bad that I’m afraid big changes are needed to show the boys that this can’t be tolerated any longer. Words fail me now!

I confess I'm not especially angry at the team. Disappointed yes, but not angry. I have witness games where we've been thrashed and it looked like we weren't trying, but I got the impression (at least on TV) that the players were giving effort yesterday. It was just unstructured, ineffective and marred by ordinary skills. I don't know what's going on with them. But wholesale dropping of players when we have almost literally nothing to promote isn't going to improve things.

We should get Melican and McInerney back this week. JMac was pretty good last week, and Melican is usually solid. Of course that might be offset by the loss of Mills (I've not seen the MRP findings yet) and/or Wicks. So it might be two steps forward, two steps back.

I'm agnostic on giving Buller a go in place of McLean. I don't think he's good enough for senior footy and I thought Mclean was improved on the Essendon game, after which he got dropped. Though we got the ball into our forward line so infrequently that it was hard to judge how the forwards were really going for long stretches.

I would like to see the back of Hamling as a forward. If Francis is also OK to return, he could play in our forward line. His goal kicking's not inspiring but he does know how to lead at the ball. Or he could try to take one of Adelaide's tall forwards. I've not watched them at all this year so don't know if they're playing three of them.

It's hard to tell on TV (and even live when you're following the ball) whether Blakey is struggling to get into games because he's having to mind a tall forward or whether it's because he's been tagged. Either way, he's a player around which Cox could make some changes, whether that's trying to free him up to play in a more expansive style, or moving him up to the wing or half-forward. He does have the skill set to shake things up.

[UUaswan]

I confess I'm not especially angry at the team. Disappointed yes, but not angry. I have witness games where we've been thrashed and it looked like we weren't trying, but I got the impression (at least on TV) that the players were giving effort yesterday. It was just unstructured, ineffective and marred by ordinary skills. I don't know what's going on with them. But wholesale dropping of players when we have almost literally nothing to promote isn't going to improve things.

We should get Melican and McInerney back this week. JMac was pretty good last week, and Melican is usually solid. Of course that might be offset by the loss of Mills (I've not seen the MRP findings yet) and/or Wicks. So it might be two steps forward, two steps back.

I'm agnostic on giving Buller a go in place of McLean. I don't think he's good enough for senior footy and I thought Mclean was improved on the Essendon game, after which he got dropped. Though we got the ball into our forward line so infrequently that it was hard to judge how the forwards were really going for long stretches.

I would like to see the back of Hamling as a forward. If Francis is also OK to return, he could play in our forward line. His goal kicking's not inspiring but he does know how to lead at the ball. Or he could try to take one of Adelaide's tall forwards. I've not watched them at all this year so don't know if they're playing three of them.

It's hard to tell on TV (and even live when you're following the ball) whether Blakey is struggling to get into games because he's having to mind a tall forward or whether it's because he's been tagged. Either way, he's a player around which Cox could make some changes, whether that's trying to free him up to play in a more expansive style, or moving him up to the wing or half-forward. He does have the skill set to shake things up.

Blakey moves the needle, even if he holds Tilthorpe goaless that is a waste of talent.

Get the guy involved on a wing, fwd or midfield, let someone else crash packs and wrestle talls.
Pre season Cox talked about his height and his ability to play on talls, maybe he should talk about the nightmare he is to match up on due to his speed and height. Imagine a coach literally disarming himself on camera.

Teams will go into out games as tall as possible up fwd knowing our Match Committee is stupid enough to put Blakey on 1 of them.

Case in point, Fritsch was the sub against Brisbane

At one end he puts Hamling on the key back with no plan to score at the other end he puts out best ball user on a fwd and negates him

[The Big Cat]

The idea of dropping Roberts is ridiculous. At least he gets the ball. Sure he had a few turnovers, but his percentage of bad kicks is no worse than others. He turned it over half a dozen times in nearly 30 possessions. Other blokes had 10 touches and butchered it 3 times. Which is worse? And yesterday nobody tried provide options so Roberts sometimes had to force things.

He played junior football as a mid. Why not try him in there along with Bice who has a big body and must have played as a mid at Werribee because he said he hadn’t played as a backman until the Swans put him there.

[imuninformedtwo]

I confess I'm not especially angry at the team. Disappointed yes, but not angry. I have witness games where we've been thrashed and it looked like we weren't trying, but I got the impression (at least on TV) that the players were giving effort yesterday. It was just unstructured, ineffective and marred by ordinary skills. I don't know what's going on with them. But wholesale dropping of players when we have almost literally nothing to promote isn't going to improve things.

We should get Melican and McInerney back this week. JMac was pretty good last week, and Melican is usually solid. Of course that might be offset by the loss of Mills (I've not seen the MRP findings yet) and/or Wicks. So it might be two steps forward, two steps back.

I'm agnostic on giving Buller a go in place of McLean. I don't think he's good enough for senior footy and I thought Mclean was improved on the Essendon game, after which he got dropped. Though we got the ball into our forward line so infrequently that it was hard to judge how the forwards were really going for long stretches.

I would like to see the back of Hamling as a forward. If Francis is also OK to return, he could play in our forward line. His goal kicking's not inspiring but he does know how to lead at the ball. Or he could try to take one of Adelaide's tall forwards. I've not watched them at all this year so don't know if they're playing three of them.

It's hard to tell on TV (and even live when you're following the ball) whether Blakey is struggling to get into games because he's having to mind a tall forward or whether it's because he's been tagged. Either way, he's a player around which Cox could make some changes, whether that's trying to free him up to play in a more expansive style, or moving him up to the wing or half-forward. He does have the skill set to shake things up.

With Blakey, it's a bit of both. This week will be an interesting test case. To answer your earlier questions, the Crows are often playing four talls - Thilthorpe, Walker, Fogarty and Curtin. I wouldn't want Blakey caught on anyone bar Curtin. He doesn't have the muscle for the first three, who are very good at getting isolated or playing deep to allow room for long leads, and needs to be too defensively minded to do so. Melican and McCartin can take two of them, and Ramps will have to find a way on the third.

If you asked me some things I'd like to see for the rest of the year, in no particular order:

- Continue to invest in some of the tweaks to the game plan which are occasionally working, but not consistently. For example, we beat a side as good at the contested ball as Carlton very handsomely at that, but got flogged by Melbourne. It'll be in our long-term interests to make that element of the game non-negoitable, as it is still essential in big games - even if you still have to have other weaponry like our turnover game return. I sense Cox is prioritising it, but frustrated by our ability to repeat it.
- Structure a defence that provides for run. We've lost that this year, and Blakey is exhibit A bar a couple of games, and Bice's boomlet. Ollie's gone to poo, and Wicks is doing a great job but focused on his defence first. Blakey is really such an exceptional asset you need to build around him a little - but he also can't be the only egg in the basket. The Pies moved J Daicos to back of centre for a reason, and it's the same one that saw the Suns go invest in Rioli and Noble. Melican's regular absence has really hurt in this, but there were times when selections hindered us a little too.
- Give a few players an extended run, to find out. Gus is one. He had a terrific game on the weekend on every metric, but was rarely used in the centre square in the second quarter, or I think the fourth quarter the week before. That's on the coach. He's still got to find some polish in his game, but he's a bright young player who deserves a reasonable stint in there. I'd be inclined to find the right opportunities to give Bueller and Snell a burst too if we can, as well as get Hanily back for another stint.
- Discipline. We can whinge all we want, but most of the suspensions have been justified - even my pet love McInerney. The next player dumb enough to get suspended for something stupid should be told an additional week in reserves will follow, you morons.
- Fix Wilbur and Florent. They are so important to us when they play well, but are off right now - and that's putting it kindly about Ollie. He got a message the week before being made sub, responded in the second half, and was then crap again this week. What's that? You need that tier of player contributing at their best to be an effective team, and they're not right now. If not, and I understand he's year one into a fresh contract but contracts mean jack @@@@ right now, a conversation needs to be had at year's end.
- My other question is what support Cox needs. We didn't appoint an extra coach to the panel after Longmire stepped down, and new coaches always need plenty of help. If the Swans are convinced they have their man - and they must be, and I tend to think they'd know - ensure he has the resources in place to do the job. It may simply have been too late to find an extra last year, but should be tended to at the end of this year. (I've also got my questions about whether Forrest Gump is the right man to head the football department given he completely wasted a premiership-destined list at GWS, but that's another story and pre-dates Cox.)

And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting for a minute we tank. I hate what that introduces to a club, and proud of the fact we always play to win. But we can try a few things.

[liz]

Re coaches, it can be a challenge to persuade quality coaches to relocate (and live in) Sydney. That's one reason why so many coaches have swapped between the Swans and Giants once the first club has tired of them (or they've tired of the club). Where's our soft cap COLA?

We struck it lucky when Don Pyke decided he wanted a change of scenery. I think he was just the injected of fresh air from a very experienced coach that Longmire needed at the time. I agree we could really do with some quality assistance for Cox. I have wondered whether Longmire is acting as something of a mentor for him, but it's tricky (for both) when the mentor was so recently in the mentee's job, even if the change was entirely the mentor's choice.

I'm wondering if we're two coaches down. Not only did we lose Longmire without replacement, we also parted ways with our VFL coach, and moved McVeigh jnr into that role. Who's left on the senior team coaching panel? Just Mathews, McVeigh snr and Buchanan? I know Adam Kennedy was added as a development coach but I imagine he's working with the young'uns. He's not giving tactical, personnel management or team motivation assistance to Cox.

Re the players yesterday, I thought Hayward was OK. I know most people will remember the set shot he missed. Yes, he needs to kick those. But it's not like it made a difference to the result. I thought he worked up the ground and competed hard in the air, especially in the first half. Did he get many possessions? No. But life is tough for forwards when the ball's barely getting there, or getting there with any purpose. He wasn't a shining light, by any means, but I'd put him in our least awful half dozen or so.

Florent is another story. Which is a shame, because he looked purposeful last week when he came on.

The player who is really frustrating me, and isn't going much better than Florent, is Lloyd. That's in part because I know what an underrated yet critical part of our team he's been for a decade, and he's so far from that now it's sad. And also because I think Florent might rediscover his spark, while I question whether it's gone out for good with Lloyd (and also wonder whether he'll be able to sense that).

[imuninformedtwo]

Re coaches, it can be a challenge to persuade quality coaches to relocate (and live in) Sydney. That's one reason why so many coaches have swapped between the Swans and Giants once the first club has tired of them (or they've tired of the club). Where's our soft cap COLA?

We struck it lucky when Don Pyke decided he wanted a change of scenery. I think he was just the injected of fresh air from a very experienced coach that Longmire needed at the time. I agree we could really do with some quality assistance for Cox. I have wondered whether Longmire is acting as something of a mentor for him, but it's tricky (for both) when the mentor was so recently in the mentee's job, even if the change was entirely the mentor's choice.

I'm wondering if we're two coaches down. Not only did we lose Longmire without replacement, we also parted ways with our VFL coach, and moved McVeigh jnr into that role. Who's left on the senior team coaching panel? Just Mathews, McVeigh snr and Buchanan? I know Adam Kennedy was added as a development coach but I imagine he's working with the young'uns. He's not giving tactical, personnel management or team motivation assistance to Cox.

Re the players yesterday, I thought Hayward was OK. I know most people will remember the set shot he missed. Yes, he needs to kick those. But it's not like it made a difference to the result. I thought he worked up the ground and competed hard in the air, especially in the first half. Did he get many possessions? No. But life is tough for forwards when the ball's barely getting there, or getting there with any purpose. He wasn't a shining light, by any means, but I'd put him in our least awful half dozen or so.

Florent is another story. Which is a shame, because he looked purposeful last week when he came on.

The player who is really frustrating me, and isn't going much better than Florent, is Lloyd. That's in part because I know what an underrated yet critical part of our team he's been for a decade, and he's so far from that now it's sad. And also because I think Florent might rediscover his spark, while I question whether it's gone out for good with Lloyd (and also wonder whether he'll be able to sense that).

It’s a really fair point re coaches. Matthew’s’ family still lives in QLD and he rents a dungeon. There’s a GWS assistant living in a caravan park.

I get Wilbur is on balance hurting from the team deficiencies right now but I do think he could be doing a bit more.

And it’s a good call re Lloyd. I am a bit gun shy after predicting the start of last year he risked falling off a cliff but he proved me wrong and the move to a wing gave him fresh juice. I just can’t make up my mind whether he’s also just down or gone. He’s got the rest of the season to find out.

Oh, and Mills just got a week so is the first to qualify for my morons demotion rule. There was no malice in his act, but it was unbelievably stupid to leave the ground the way he did. Take the dunce hat Callum. You were warned and have let your coach down badly.

[UUaswan]

The idea of dropping Roberts is ridiculous. At least he gets the ball. Sure he had a few turnovers, but his percentage of bad kicks is no worse than others. He turned it over half a dozen times in nearly 30 possessions. Other blokes had 10 touches and butchered it 3 times. Which is worse? And yesterday nobody tried provide options so Roberts sometimes had to force things.

He played junior football as a mid. Why not try him in there along with Bice who has a big body and must have played as a mid at Werribee because he said he hadn’t played as a backman until the Swans put him there.

Agree here, last thing we need to do is bag the guy that actually gets his hands on it

[mcs]

The idea of dropping Roberts is ridiculous. At least he gets the ball. Sure he had a few turnovers, but his percentage of bad kicks is no worse than others. He turned it over half a dozen times in nearly 30 possessions. Other blokes had 10 touches and butchered it 3 times. Which is worse? And yesterday nobody tried provide options so Roberts sometimes had to force things.

He played junior football as a mid. Why not try him in there along with Bice who has a big body and must have played as a mid at Werribee because he said he hadn’t played as a backman until the Swans put him there.

I certainly wouldn't drop him, but I wish the coaches would discourage him (and several others) from so much 'precision kick' type options when in dangerous positions defensively. He has coughed up goals a lot of times this year with kicks that are ever so slightly off. As have others - Bice has been doing it as well. Let them kick longer. Prefer us to turn it over 80 metres from goal then give a guaranteed shot at goal because of a turnover.

The player who is really frustrating me, and isn't going much better than Florent, is Lloyd. That's in part because I know what an underrated yet critical part of our team he's been for a decade, and he's so far from that now it's sad. And also because I think Florent might rediscover his spark, while I question whether it's gone out for good with Lloyd (and also wonder whether he'll be able to sense that).

Yep sadly I get the same feeling about the 'spark' being gone with Lloyd - when he has pushed further up towards the wing this year he has offered not much, and his kicks (which were never exceptionally long or penetrating to begin with) seem even another step down this year as well. Out of contract this year I believe (but happy to be corrected if I'm wrong) - got a feeling this could be well his last year with the Swans. Been a terrific player for a long time, but for some the end comes quicker than for others. I hope I'm wrong and he rediscovers his mojo, but I just don't feel like it is likely to happen.

[UUaswan]

I certainly wouldn't drop him, but I wish the coaches would discourage him (and several others) from so much 'precision kick' type options when in dangerous positions defensively. He has coughed up goals a lot of times this year with kicks that are ever so slightly off. As have others - Bice has been doing it as well. Let them kick longer. Prefer us to turn it over 80 metres from goal then give a guaranteed shot at goal because of a turnover.

The only player they should be trying to hit in the D50, is Blakey, everyone else clear out and be a down field option.

Obviously switches etc when the play is slow but chipping into traffic needs to stop

[liz]

The only player they should be trying to hit in the D50, is Blakey, everyone else clear out and be a down field option.

Obviously switches etc when the play is slow but chipping into traffic needs to stop

I'd actually prefer we played a riskier style, even if it means getting big scores kicked against us. The foundation of our football last year was the high risk, 45 degree into the corridor. It completely opens up play, puts defences out of shape and enables you to score quickly. I don't think a team will win a premiership in the foreseeable future if they don't have that in their arsenal. It's too easy to defend other methods of moving the ball.

Obviously we're without Errol who, along with Blakey, was our main orchestrator of that kick last year. But others can do it too - and are given licence to. They may not be quite as good as Errol or Nick, but we shouldn't forget that those two contributed to some costly turnovers last year too. It's called high risk, high reward for a reason.

This slow kick-to-the wing, stop, eventually just kick long to a contest is doing my head in, especially as overhead contested marking really is not a strength of this squad. That's not a form thing. It's just a fact.