Holding the ball

[NMWBloods]

I understand your point and it's an interesting one given our preference for stoppages and controlling the tempo.

However, it also goes against our plan of keeping control of the ball.

When you think about many of our free kicks for HTB, they are in cases when the ball is in dispute and our players jump on it. This is poor play and if it's a tactic, then it's a strange one.

[GB85]

I always thought holding the ball was based on prior opportunity to get rid of the ball. This season i have notice, as many have pointed out, frees paid because of no attempt being made to get rid of it. This despite the fact there was no prior opportunity and the player was tackled and pinned to the ground (in one case on the weekend with the oppositions knee across his throat. What is the correct justification??

[Justice]

What I find annoying is that free kicks are not awarded for incorrect disposal when players are legally tackled. The laws of the games 15.2.3 (a) state that the ball has to be disposed by kick or handball when a player is correctly tackled.

Often the ball is just dropped, "scrambled away" or allowed to be taken by a team-mate in the four or five player "pile-up".

Cheers

Justice

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by GB85
I always thought holding the ball was based on prior opportunity to get rid of the ball. This season i have notice, as many have pointed out, frees paid because of no attempt being made to get rid of it. This despite the fact there was no prior opportunity and the player was tackled and pinned to the ground (in one case on the weekend with the oppositions knee across his throat. What is the correct justification??

The interpretation changed this year. Even without prior opportunity the player must still make some sort of attempt to get rid of it.

[Gary]

Bottom line it is a hopeless rule...umpired inconsistently...we must at least get better at "apparently"(if not really) trying to get the ball away.

[swantastic]

It just goes to show that no one can agree on HTB decisions.

[SimonH]

Originally posted by Boodnutz
Yeah, other sides do and often give the ball up on the break. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in our defensive 50 but I don't recall it.

I am saying Sydney place more value on denying broken play than anyone else. It's not always a given that we will be pinged, but when we are is it really hurting us on the scoreboard? Maybe it is, or maybe someone within the club has done analysis at that depth and decided it's a better risk to slow up play and give the free.

I'd subscribe to the theory, if not for the fact that the same players offend, and fail to offend, regardless of the state of the game.

Leo Barry and Adam Goodes (there may be others) are pretty much never brought to ground with the ball. Hard to imagine that the coaching staff would say 'if it's you tackled, Goodesie, we'll roll the dice and keep the ball moving; but for you, NOG, just cop the HTB on the chin and everyone else fall back a kick from the play'.

Two underutilised tactics for avoiding HTBs in pack situations:
a) If not being completely lain on (and quite frequently the player isn't), just roll away from the pack, leaving the ball behind. Pretty embarrassing for the ump to pay HTB against a guy who's several metres away from the ball.
b) If you have hold of the ball and there are opposition players lying on top of you/next to you, just hand them the ball. Then tackle them. If there is doubt in the ump's mind as to possession, HTB can't be paid. The ump frequently explains himself after calling a ball-up by saying 'You both had it'.

[Boodnutz]

Originally posted by SimonH
Hard to imagine that the coaching staff would say 'if it's you tackled, Goodesie, we'll roll the dice and keep the ball moving; but for you, NOG, just cop the HTB on the chin and everyone else fall back a kick from the play'.

I think that's exactly what they's say. Italy won a World Cup on that basis. It's a good option. Not where the ball is in genuine dispute but where loss of possession in open play looks likely if you let it go. Fall back in numbers win it back and go again.

I agree that players should be a bit smarter in how they hang onto it, and giving it to the opposition player then grabbing him would be a good one. At this point, players still probably panic a bit when they're in that situation and don't do anything.

[Sanecow]

It's an interesting theory. They would have the data from previous years to determine whether any given player is more than 50% chance of getting the ball to a team mate when tackled. Those that tend to cough it up to the opposition would be better off holding it in and at least getting some time to flood back rather than having a quick breakaway. I am almost ready to buy in.

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by Sanecow
It's an interesting theory. They would have the data from previous years to determine whether any given player is more than 50% chance of getting the ball to a team mate when tackled. Those that tend to cough it up to the opposition would be better off holding it in and at least getting some time to flood back rather than having a quick breakaway. I am almost ready to buy in.

There does appear to be method in what I thought was a mad idea. I could subscribe to that idea too.