Will Brett Kirk have Paul Kelly status when he retires???????

[AnnieH]

Wow ... the high priestess finally has an acolyte!! Bow to the high priestess!! (NOT!!)

Not that I need the back-up, but thanks.

I don't hate anyone ... it takes too much effort to hate, and I really can't be that bothered!! (with the exception of the budgies and collingwood, of course, but they're nobodies ... so it doesn't count!!)

I don't think that Kirk is not a great player or that he's not a great leader. He's played some really great games, and he's had some shockers as well (just like everybody else).

At this point in time, if what it takes for him to lead with *inspiration* comes from his grandfather's efforts during the second world war, kudos to him.

I have no idea which orifice Kells pulled his inspriation out of time and time again, but he did so with modesty.

In saying that, I also realise that today's game is more media oriented. The media weren't interested in us when Kells was playing. Other than our 96 GF appearance and Tony Lockett's 1300th, I can't recall a time when the media were really that interested in anything Sydney had to say or do.

I have to agree with the acolyte .... "This started as a post about Kel - so let me ask. Kel played in sides that got flogged mercilessly every week and alongside blokes (Dale Lewis anyone?) with twice the talent but half the application. Did you ever hear Kel go out and kick their balls publicly? No. Nor did Maxfield. Nor does Goodes".

IMO Paul Kelly IS the greatest player I've ever seen play the game. IMO he has more class than Kirk.

Geez ... you think I love Goodsey .... don't get me started on Kells.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
IMO Paul Kelly IS the greatest player I've ever seen play the game.

Siriusly.

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
Siriusly.

deliriously

[Ruda Wakening]

Obviously.

[Margie]

Originally posted by i'm-uninformed2
I'll take this on - as I assume I am the acolyte.

I said in my earlier post I admire his endeavour as a player. What I hate are the forked-tongue types who pose as modest, humble servants of the "bloods" code but then go forth at every opportunity to self-promote.

This started as a post about Kel - so let me ask. Kel played in sides that got flogged mercilessly every week and alongside blokes (Dale Lewis anyone?) with twice the talent but half the application. Did you ever hear Kel go out and kick their balls publicly? No. Nor did Maxfield. Nor does Goodes.

There are ways to promote a club culture. There are ways to promote yourself. Kirk leans to the latter too often.

I don't wish to perpuate another Kirk bashing thread, but fail to see how being a nominated Captain of the club answering to media on a particular issue can be seen as an exercise in "self-promotion".

[Industrial Fan]

Originally posted by i'm-uninformed2
Did you ever hear Kel go out and kick their balls publicly? No. Nor did Maxfield. Nor does Goodes.

There are ways to promote a club culture. There are ways to promote yourself. Kirk leans to the latter too often.

Isnt leadership about making tough decisions too? Sometimes players need a clip around the ear, and they need someone who is prepared to crack open their skull to win a 40-60 ball to put their own efforts into perspective.....

The colonel is a champion of the highest order.

So he has an alternative lifestyle, ergo call him a hippy. But when push comes to shove he is a warrior, and not that I would differentiate between kirk and kelly in this instance - I would certainly like to have him at my side in battle.

I dont think you can erode his leadership credentials by using any examples from the media - similarly with Roos and his coaching. The media work is quite often either throwaway fluff OR is part of a bigger strategy whether that is internal or external.

Back off the colonel!!

[i'm-uninformed2]

Kirk is inherently valuable as a player and a leader. What, then, is his value in trade week? 1st round pick? Tarrant? Spider?

Let's define it.

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by Margie
I don't wish to perpuate another Kirk bashing thread, but fail to see how being a nominated Captain of the club answering to media on a particular issue can be seen as an exercise in "self-promotion".

Sorry. If I hear that Kokoda Trail bull@@@@ one more time, I'm gunna puke. That's what I don't like.

Anzac spirit, hard job to walk to trail, my grandfathers a legend, blah, blah, blah. It's a bloody walk in the park when you don't have an enemy shooting at you from behind a palm tree!!

I'd have more respect for him if he'd actually fought in the bloody war, not living off this GRANDFATHER's laurels.

Plus the fact that he has stated publicly that he never took much interest in his pa before he'd done Kokoda.

Now, I'm a good lebanese girl who believes that family comes first. Not have interest in your grandparents or what they sacrificed to get YOU where YOU are today?? ... INDEED!!

Be proud of what your pa did ... @@@@ yeah. Use it as your inspiration, go right ahead. But get off the bloody soap-box son.

People are suffering just to make it day-to-day. Use THAT as your inspriation.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
IMO Paul Kelly IS the greatest player I've ever seen play the game.

You haven't watched much football have you...?

[i'm-uninformed2]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Sorry. If I hear that Kokoda Trail bull@@@@ one more time, I'm gunna puke. That's what I don't like.

Anzac spirit, hard job to walk to trail, my grandfathers a legend, blah, blah, blah. It's a bloody walk in the park when you don't have an enemy shooting at you from behind a palm tree!!

I'd have more respect for him if he'd actually fought in the bloody war, not living off this GRANDFATHER's laurels.

Plus the fact that he has stated publicly that he never took much interest in his pa before he'd done Kokoda.

Now, I'm a good lebanese girl who believes that family comes first. Not have interest in your grandparents or what they sacrificed to get YOU where YOU are today?? ... INDEED!!

Be proud of what your pa did ... @@@@ yeah. Use it as your inspiration, go right ahead. But get off the bloody soap-box son.

People are suffering just to make it day-to-day. Use THAT as your inspriation.

I had the pleasure of meeting his grandfather, Wally Moran, at the Brisbane game in Rd 21 (?) at Telstra last year after he had tossed the coin. A modest, humble man. Quite noticeable the difference really.

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
You haven't watched much football have you...?

Quite a bit actually.
Name a more couragous player than Kells?

Actually, it doesn't matter who you name. No-one's gunna sway me on this one.

My nephews (being 12 and 11) have watched considerably less footy than I have. Their favourite thing to do in summer is to come to my place and watch taped games of footy from the 90's that Paul Kelly played in. They think he's a legend ... out of the mouth of babes!!

[swantastic]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Im a good lebanese girl .....

Ah that explains a lot

[Industrial Fan]

Originally posted by i'm-uninformed2
Kirk is inherently valuable as a player and a leader. What, then, is his value in trade week? 1st round pick? Tarrant? Spider?

Let's define it.

In actual trade terms, maybe you would get a high second round?

But that is a silly point - any prospective suitors would have to think that his cultural value, leadership, etc could be transplanted. Can it? Probably not.

In terms of his value to the club, even the first pick would not compensate for his loss. He has been massive in the turn around in the culture of the club.

What would a club like carlton do to have him there? Thornton, gone. Russell, going. No point getting top draft picks if the kids dont think they've got a future. Someone like Kirk is invaluable because everyone knows what he is playing for, and have an example to follow.

It is beyond me how anyone can ride him into the ground for his role around the club.

[Industrial Fan]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Plus the fact that he has stated publicly that he never took much interest in his pa before he'd done Kokoda.

I'm pretty sure he is coming from the point of view that walking the trail opened his eyes to the sacrifices his granddad had made....

To give you an example, you can talk about Goodesy all you want, but unless you see him play you dont fully appreciate his skills........??

[Frog]

Originally posted by i'm-uninformed2
Kirk is inherently valuable as a player and a leader. What, then, is his value in trade week? 1st round pick? Tarrant? Spider?

Let's define it.

Indeed.

Kirk  /kɜrk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kurk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

?noun 1. Brett, 1976 ?, Sydney Swans co-captain: Member of leadership group: Grand Final winner.

Untouchable. Full. Stop.