Will Brett Kirk have Paul Kelly status when he retires???????

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by Margie
I don't wish to perpuate another Kirk bashing thread, but fail to see how being a nominated Captain of the club answering to media on a particular issue can be seen as an exercise in "self-promotion".

Just adding to that: I'm part of the media so I'm used to looking for spin everywhere. (I was at the Dixie Chicks last night and that was set us like a revivalist gathering.) So when I saw Voss, not Leigh, address the press conference about Aker I thought "they are doing it this way so the message comes through that it is the team and the players that are as out with Aker as the admin and coaches".

Similarly, I think the Nickygate saga was choreographed for an effect. That came from Roos "I've been reading lots about Davis and don't care" line to Kirk's press utterings. I think it was a last gasp line in the sand: get your act together and you stay, don't and you're gone. What we have now heard that it was multipronged, with Kirk working through the issues with Nick privately, too. And I don't think it was just the leaders - I suspect players like Dempster and Amon may have said that they were tired of doing the punishment sessions for the irresponsibility of one player. The fact that it worked is great - a hard working Davis could be one of the all time Swans immortals.

But don't shoot the messenger - I think Kirk delivered the lines because he's better with words than Baz or Leo.

However, I could be wrong. I thought Nick's article just before the GF was perfect Swans' spin and it turns out to be unauthorised. Then Baz stating that it was "but it was okay this time" really worried me as it was one of the few cracks in the charade. Last year, we got under the Eagles skin before the GF. This year they seemed to be doing it to us. And so it turned out on game day.

The overall history is fascinating. In very simplistic terms, Capper got the Sydney Swans noticed. Plugger showed that the team wasn't a joke. Kel revealed to Sydney that AFL could have great leaders - just as the Wallabies and League have had. Roos and Maxfield created a winning club culture that got us a premiership. Kirk, the current leader with the least skill but the most passion is the face of an extraordinary period in club history when we can seriously discuss our chances of appearing in Grand Final after Grand Final.

Colless can talk at the dinner this year about how the stage has been set in the past few years for the Swans to be an AFL powerhouse for the next 50 years - and noone laughed. Tell that to Willessee and Dr Geoff.

[AnnieH]

I'll agree to disagree only if you agree to disagree!!

I'm not saying he's a total waste of oxygen.

I agree with you 100% MMG that he would not be able to do at another club what he does for us here .... which IS a lot.

I just happen to think, IN MY MOST HUMBLEST OF OPINIONS, that's he's a bit of a hippy tool !!

Again, I'll agree to disagree only if you agree to disagree.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Quite a bit actually.
Name a more couragous player than Kells?

"greatest player"

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
"greatest player"

Greatest.
Best.
Most courageous.
Most thrilling.

Can name more ...

How many times have I read on RWO the term .... "he's a little Kells coming up on the outside" ... or words to that effect.

Kells is the player by which all current and future swans are measured. Before Kells came along, it was Bobby Skilton.

IMHO, I don't think that Kirk is going to a "measuring stick" type of player. You know it makes sense.

[reigning premier]

It's apples and oranges people.....

Both great leaders and both great players....

One choses to speak publicly, One chose to keep silent.

One inspired his team by words, One inspired more by actions.

One holds a grand final medallion, one doesn't.

One has a brownlow, one doesn't.

One is outwardly passionate, one was inwardly resolute.

One was inspired by the deeds of his lineage, One was inspired from within.

WTF does it really matter???

BOTH have been sensational for their team, this club, this city, The AFL as a whole. Comparisons cannot be fairly made whilst one is still playing. Then, and only then, when the dust settles will a true comparison be possible.

But IMHO, The point is moot. They are both sensational Swans players.

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by reigning premier
snip ...But IMHO, The point is moot. They are both sensational Swans players.

God love ya ... put us all into perspective why don't ya!!

[i'm-uninformed2]

Originally posted by reigning premier
BOTH have been sensational for their team, this club, this city, The AFL as a whole.

Whoa! Whoa! Remember when Kel came back from his knee reco and the Swans snuck him unannounced into the team for a game against Freo in the west.

When he came off the bench for his first run, the Freo fans gave him a standing ovation to welcome him back.

THAT, my friend, is respect of the whole AFL as one of the greats.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Now, I'm a good lebanese girl who believes that family comes first.

Must be why you wanted Mrs Jolly induced.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Greatest. No
Best. No
Most courageous. Yes (one of).
Most thrilling. No. (although he had his moments)

Can name more ...

Such as?

How many times have I read on RWO the term .... "he's a little Kells coming up on the outside" ... or words to that effect.

So?

Kells is the player by which all current and future swans are measured. Before Kells came along, it was Bobby Skilton.

Skilton craps on Kelly.

IMHO, I don't think that Kirk is going to a "measuring stick" type of player. You know it makes sense.

Kirk doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Kelly or Skilton, and Kelly barely with Skilton.

[reigning premier]

Originally posted by i'm-uninformed2
Whoa! Whoa! Remember when Kel came back from his knee reco and the Swans snuck him unannounced into the team for a game against Freo in the west.

When he came off the bench for his first run, the Freo fans gave him a standing ovation to welcome him back.

THAT, my friend, is respect of the whole AFL as one of the greats.

Like I said.. Apples and oranges....

Let's see if, god forbid, a similar thing happens to Kirk... Then you can compare...

But again.. It's still a moot point!

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
[B][B]Such as?

[B] So?

[B] Skilton craps on Kelly.

Kirk doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Kelly or Skilton, and Kelly barely with Skilton.

You know ... that's just footy!

Someone else is always going to be better than someone else. It's the hormones they put in food these days. Jeez ... do you see the size of kids these days. Where were all these big, huge, tall, buffed boys when I was growing up? All I had to choose from were short-arses with blockhead Rugby League necks.

When I first joined this conversation, I believe I used the words IN MY OPINION. I also said I couldn't give a toss whether anyone agreed or disagreed with my opinion and that on the subject of Paul Kelly, I cannot be swayed.

You are entitled to your opinion NMW, and I'm not going to argue with you son.

I'll agree to disagree only if you agree to disagree!

[ScottH]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
IMO Paul Kelly IS the greatest player I've ever seen play the game. IMO he has more class than Kirk.

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Quite a bit actually.
Name a more couragous player than Kells?

Make up your mind.

No one would dispute his was one of the most courageous players (he was even vote that a number of times. But the greatest player you've ever seen?

There are much better footballers than Kelly. (Who most of us do regard as a club Legend)

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by ScottH
Make up your mind.

No one would dispute his was one of the most courageous players (he was even vote that a number of times. But the greatest player you've ever seen?

There are much better footballers than Kelly. (Who most of us do regard as a club Legend)

Not in my opinion.

My mind doesn't need to be made up ... he's the most courageous AND the greatest player I've ever seen. I can't (read, won't) be swayed kiddies.

I've been following the swans for 20 years, and, in that time, no-one plays the game like Kells did.
Of course, there are a lot of comparisions TO HIM, but no-one has come close to "actually" playing LIKE him. A real pity, but we'll never see that again. I can die happy cause, in my opinion, I was there to see him play live (unlike my nephews who only have old taped games).

[swantastic]

Originally posted by reigning premier
They are both sensational Swans players.

Right on brother.

[Go Swannies]

Hey I wrote heaps and noone has got stuck into what I wrote yet. Get on with it.