Plugger's Record

[AnnieH]

Re: Re: Plugger's Record

Originally posted by SimonH
Depends what you mean by 'his record'. If you mean 'most goals in the history of the VFL or AFL competitions', then, like all records it will probably eventually go, but could be expected to last between 20 years and a century; barring changes to the style of the game that take it further away from the realm of the individual goalscorer (which could happen).

If you mean 'most prolific goalscorer in the history of the game (at the top level)', then it already has been (from considerably fewer games than Plugger played).

I mean the 1360 kicks that Tony Lockett kicked in this career.
That record.

[SimonH]

Re: Re: Re: Plugger's Record

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
I mean the 1360 kicks that Tony Lockett kicked in this career.
That record.

My point being that, contrary to what most people believe, that 1360 is not the record for the most career goals ever kicked by an Australian rules player.

[goswannie14]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Plugger's Record

Originally posted by SimonH
My point being that, contrary to what most people believe, that 1360 is not the record for the most career goals ever kicked by an Australian rules player.

Pluggers record is for the AFL/VFL, no-one here suggested otherwise. I am also sure that there are players in other lesser leagues that have kicked more goals in their careers. To challenge AFL/VFL records with records from other leagues seems a bit pointless.

[Plugger46]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Plugger's Record

Originally posted by SimonH
My point being that, contrary to what most people believe, that 1360 is not the record for the most career goals ever kicked by an Australian rules player.

Plugger did it at the highest level though. The VFL was widely regarded as the superior competition.

[SimonH]

Originally posted by Plugger46
Plugger did it at the highest level though. The VFL was widely regarded as the superior competition.

See here at post 6 for an explanation of why the argument, "the VFL was generally superior, therefore only VFL achievements were 'at the highest level'" is invalid. Just one of a range of possible analogies is used: to say that the SA cricket team has not played at the same standard as the NSW cricket team for most of its existence, is borne out by the results. To say that the SA cricket team has not played at the same level as the NSW cricket team (or that Adelaide grade cricket is not the same level of cricket as Sydney grade cricket) is absurd.

The huge number of VFL/SANFL (and VFL/WAFL) inter-comp matches played over the decades, and the enormous interest they generated, is testament to the fact that the 3 comps clearly occupied the same level, as the leading footy comp in each state (where Aussie rules was the principal winter sport). If they were pointless walkovers, public interest would have waned and the matches would simply have stopped. As, indeed, happened when they were overtaken by inter-club events in the 1990s.

To raise some other queries that arise from that strange (but widespread) rewriting of history:
1. The VFL did not establish a clear superiority (in terms of starting to win the lion's share of inter-club and inter-comp matches) until the 1930s. Does this mean that SANFL and WAFL achievements should be recognised as 'the highest level' until some arbitrary date around then, but not after?
2. Should we continue the strange pretence that no football was played at the highest level at all until 1897, just as the result of a split within one particular colony's chief competition? After the early 1880s, you'll find little support in the results for the theory that VFA football was clearly at a higher level than the chief SA and WA comps.
3. In those years where the VFL was demonstrably not the superior competition, because its champion team was beaten by the SA champion team (e.g. 1907, 1914, 1972) or it lost the intercomp representative match or round-robin (e.g. 1901, 1923, 1965), should the 'top level' records for that year be recorded as the SA comp records only, and the VFL records stricken from the books?

It is historical nonsense to suggest that Australia has had only one 'top level' footy comp for most of the game's existence. No-one, apart from an excessively enthusiastic Victorian picking a pub fight, would have advanced such a proposition in 1981. That it's widely believed now is just the result of rewriting history, as a consequence of the origin of the current undisputed leading comp.

Originally posted by goswannie14
Pluggers record is for the AFL/VFL, no-one here suggested otherwise. I am also sure that there are players in other lesser leagues that have kicked more goals in their careers. To challenge AFL/VFL records with records from other leagues seems a bit pointless.

See, for example, here. Note 'the game's greatest goalscorer', not 'the competition's greatest goalscorer' or 'the greatest goalscorer in the history of the current competition and its Victorian predecessor'. Ask most people with a middling interest in the game, 'Who is the greatest goalscorer of all time?', and you'll get only one answer. Accuracy is sacrificed for brevity and convenience, with the result that around 50% of the history of our great game pre-1990 is ignored or consigned to a footnote.

This is no dry theoretical argument. To say that Ken Farmer was a player who should be regarded as an inferior to Plugger (bearing in mind the inherent difficulties in comparing players from totally different eras), looking at the two players' careers in context, just doesn't hold water.

But apart from that, I'm pretty laid-back about the whole thing!

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by SimonH
sniparoosie ...

But apart from that, I'm pretty laid-back about the whole thing!

Whew ... glad to hear that you're so laid back about it. god help us if you feel passionately about something, eh??

Good on Kenny ... a legend of the SAFL. Maybe Plugger should step down from the hall of fame and give his position to Kenny. I'll ring him and ask him how he feels about it.

I must point out though (once more), that the thread is called "Plugger's Record", and the question was "Standing at 1360 goals, do you think HIS record will ever get broken?"

As you so eloquently pointed out, ask anyone who the leading goalkicker is in AFL and you're only going to get one answer.

There's only one Tony Lockett.

[cruiser]

Originally posted by SimonH
...............
This is no dry theoretical argument. To say that Ken Farmer was a player who should be regarded as an inferior to Plugger (bearing in mind the inherent difficulties in comparing players from totally different eras), looking at the two players' careers in context, just doesn't hold water.

But apart from that, I'm pretty laid-back about the whole thing!

You present some very valid points Simon and I totally agree with you (even though you are a Sturt supporter )

[SimonH]

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Good on Kenny ... a legend of the SAFL. Maybe Plugger should step down from the hall of fame and give his position to Kenny. I'll ring him and ask him how he feels about it.

Happy to agree with you that Plugger holds a record; I just contributed to clarify what the meaning of the phrase "his record" was.

As for the above gibe: um, Ken Farmer is in the Australian football hall of fame (y'know, the one owned and operated by the AFL). Has been since 1998. Better to quit while you're behind, hey?

[Bloody Hell]

Originally posted by SimonH
[B] .... To say that the SA cricket team has not played at the same level as the NSW cricket team (or that Adelaide grade cricket is not the same level of cricket as Sydney grade cricket) is absurd.

But Adelaide Grade cricket isn't at the same level as Sydney....

[AnnieH]

Originally posted by SimonH
Happy to agree with you that Plugger holds a record; I just contributed to clarify what the meaning of the phrase "his record" was.

As for the above gibe: um, Ken Farmer is in the Australian football hall of fame (y'know, the one owned and operated by the AFL). Has been since 1998. Better to quit while you're behind, hey?

Yes, maybe I should have checked the list before I commented. Once again, good on Kenny.

Still, that isn't going to take away from the fact that if you ask anyone "who holds the record for the most goals kicked in the VFL/AFL" the answer is going to be Plugger and not Kenny Farmer. So, I guess that still makes it his record - until it's broken, of course.

That's good enough for me.

[reigning premier]

Re: Plugger's Record

Originally posted by Annie Haddad
Since getting the DVD of his 1300th kick, and borrowing a copy of "Swan Song - the Paul Kelly Story", I'm having a bit of a Plugger nostalgia-fest.

Standing at 1360 goals, do you think his record will ever get broken?

Remind all the viewers who signed that book Annie.....

[reigning premier]

And no... for the foreseeable future, it will never be broken.

Lloyd will have to play until his grand kids are playing under the father/son rule, and Fevola will be dumped from a burgeoning AFL career after being found in the car park half naked with Lara Bingle....

Short of them two, I can't see anyone touching the record and as most people have pointed out, the days of the dominant seven-goal-a-game-kicking-full-forwards are gone... Until they return, they won't catch Plugger or his record....

[AnnieH]

Re: Re: Plugger's Record

Originally posted by reigning premier
Remind all the viewers who signed that book Annie.....

Sincerest apologies Uncle RP ...

Thank you for letting me borrow your SIGNED copy of "Swan Song - The Paul Kelly Story".