Swans recruiting concerns

[liz]

It does surprise me that if the Swans did want this guy, and this guy was a swans fan, why they just didn't go with the Swans. I can't imagine, myself, having the opportunity to join the Swans on this scheme but going to another club because they "wanted me more". Wouldn't surprise me if this was more financial than "professional".

But that is the point that others are making in this thread. IF the Swans are taking this attitude, it is a dangerous one.

[Boodnutz]

Yep and these articles are more likely to be written about players signed to Melbourne based clubs anyway.

It does surprise me that if the Swans did want this guy, and this guy was a swans fan, why they just didn't go with the Swans. I can't imagine, myself, having the opportunity to join the Swans on this scheme but going to another club because they "wanted me more". Wouldn't surprise me if this was more financial than "professional".

Sorry, but I can tell you from experience it isn't financial. And it has nothing to do with Melbourne clubs pumping things up. The number of potential players in NSW will increase dramatically over the next few years - there is real quality improvement. Whether it is a lack of cohesive relationship with AFL NSW or not I don't know, but the Swans need to get their act together or they will continue to miss out.

[floppinab]

This topic came up on BF, and I posted the following there with regard to this issue

Firstly I've seen a fair bit of what Collingwood have put into junior football in Sydney in the past 3 or so years, not just with their Scholarship players, but they have built links with junior football associations, have had assistant coaches come up to Sydney to take Rep. Training, in addition to having Rod Carter on board. I take my hat off to them, sometimes a lot of what is needed is experienced hands on involvement, not just to throw money. I've yet to see the Swans provide anything similar.

Since Roos has become coach, and to a certain extent since Colless stepped out of AFLNSW, the Swans have developed a very strong us vs them mentality with the Swans and the AFL (including AFLNSW). It's suited them well with the Senior team with the Bloods and all that and the stuff with Demetriou criticising the team. But it has also resulted in the situation where the Swans used to provide far more game development work than any other club in the AFL. Nowadays it's no more than any other club. The mantra is "it's the AFL's job to develop the game in Sydney, not ours". The downside is that junior football in Sydney sees far less support from the Swans these days, unfortunately resulting in the attitiude, a bit of which we can see in that article, in local junior football circles.

The Scholarship program is still going to be very miss with the odd hit. You only have to look at the draft of the last 3 or 4 years to see how little has come out of Sydney. Even a 100% improvement on what we have seen to date will still yield very few players.

I understood the Scholarship may well have been an idea floated up by Roos himself. They really need to improve their effort amongst junior football in Sydney if they are going to reap any rewards from it. And it's gotta be more than just throwing some money here, jumpers there. It's top down, from developing local coaches and effort with regional Rep. Squads.

[Mr_Juicy]

They are not gift wrapped, we are allowed up to 6 teenagers and we have no special arrangements to chose before the rest of the clubs other than geographical location so we may know a bit more about them.

These players are 14 years old and to this date the AFL has no real history with how succesful they are going to be picking talent at this age. So yes there are going to be players that get through us who we are not going to consider that might bob elsewhere in the future.

DST

Spot on. This is the AFL, not the SFL. Any team can sign em up. They are not by rights ours because they live in Sydney

[Nico]

Bloodnitz and Floppinob make all good valid points. Trouble is you don't know what spin other clubs are putting to the kids of these parents, because having been involved with junior footy for 10 years previously, no matter what the kid says it is nearly always the parents who have the say in the end.

I have seen kids perfectly happy at their club but a parent reckons the coach doesn't hold his mouth the right way, or as is very common the father is a "far better coach" than the qualified very competent coach. So off the kid goes to another club. I am sure Bloodnutz you have seen this father.

At 14/15 if a kid is in the best 3-4 in the team the parents and others hail them as the next Chris Judd, so if an AFL club pumps up their tyres more than another or makes glowing comments of their son's ability it is easy to sway parents. I am sure all AFL clubs say how good their culture is, as is their facilities etc. A lot of these recruiters in real life are snake oil salesmen.

Kevin Bartlett made a very valid argument some years ago when he said finding a star is a needle in a haystack. He says only one in many 100's ever make it to AFL from age 14 for all sorts of reasons. They start to drop off at 16 because of wine, women and song, as is mirrored in other sports (all sports bemone this) and for some they dont continue to grow or they injuries such as Oscar Schaltners disease (spelling?) hit them. That simply put is their bones grow too quickly for their ligaments and muscles causing a lot of joint pain in many cases an inability to run. Before these boys get to draft age a heck of a lot of water will run under the bridge in their lives.

They will come up against Under 18 clubs who have a habit and reputation of playing to win rather than develop players, and many a young player has been played out of what could be deemed their best position to the detiment to their future. Dont forget these comps can be the starting point for coaches who fancy themselves in an AFL role, so success to them can be paramount.

Maybe the Swans dont rate the system that highly so only focus on a few rather than the many, perhaps otherclubs dont. However if as Bloodnutz says is correct about the manner of the Swans recruiter who rang them after they chose the Hawks, then that is surely a matter of concern. You expect that the calibre of all people at our club should be top notch right down to the bootstudder and water boys.

[swantastic]

(assuming we figure they are any good) and/or players will get homesick and want to come home to NSW (a la Nick Davis)

Very good point IAG.That is a very sad out come for the club and it sounds as if there is a few sour grapes in the family.Sydney should bend over backwards to try and get the local talent.It seems to me that the Swans think that all these good players will fall into their lap later in the draft and if thats the case they are kidding them selves.

[Steve]

We'll see how highly the other clubs rate these players when they have to part with a draft pick - they'll let them go without a second thought.

Whereas the Swans will be pressured to take one per year in the main draft - hence they'll want to be fairly confident about the quality of their 'scholars'.

I think Stubbs Snr is clutching at straws - because a couple of players that were signed by Hawthorn (and probably spent a couple of weeks training with them during the summer) seem to have developed more than his eldest son has???

I'd say there's some sour grapes towards the Swans given Sydney didn't seem to show any great interest in the eldest son, who ultimately signed with West Coast, which they now regret.

[DST]

The point is that these kids are under our noses and we should be able to identify those with the most potential and ensure they want to play with the swans.

According to reports the Swans went hard at Stubbs and Reed as they are the most highly rated and they both chose to go to opposition clubs.

Obviously its not possible to take all of these kids and alot of them wont make it, but to have the cream of the crop stolen from under our noses is a big slap in the face.

I agree on the first point, we do have a slight advantage with it being in our backyard but in the end we are looking at boy's who are 3 to 4 years from even being considered for drafting. If they do make it onto a list as a full selection or rookie they then have a 40% chance of not even getting a game and being cut within 2 years.

While it's all great that these marketing managers love pumping stories out about how they snared the best 14 year old in Sydney and so and so missed out, the truth is that there are 100+ kids in and outside of AFL in NSW at present that are on a par with this kid. With this age you just do not know.

DST

[Boodnutz]

We'll see how highly the other clubs rate these players when they have to part with a draft pick - they'll let them go without a second thought.

Whereas the Swans will be pressured to take one per year in the main draft - hence they'll want to be fairly confident about the quality of their 'scholars'.

I think Stubbs Snr is clutching at straws - because a couple of players that were signed by Hawthorn (and probably spent a couple of weeks training with them during the summer) seem to have developed more than his eldest son has???

I'd say there's some sour grapes towards the Swans given Sydney didn't seem to show any great interest in the eldest son, who ultimately signed with West Coast, which they now regret.

You don't know what you're talking about. You also have no idea of what has happened here. Excuse Sydney's lack of professionalism if you want to but do it with some basis of fact. Not grandstand guesswork.

I've had a taste first hand of Sydney's "professionalism" and they can keep it for all I care.

[Damien]

You don't know what you're talking about. You also have no idea of what has happened here. Excuse Sydney's lack of professionalism if you want to but do it with some basis of fact. Not grandstand guesswork.

I've had a taste first hand of Sydney's "professionalism" and they can keep it for all I care.

Can you give some examples of this?

It's one thing to say they aren't professional, but what do they do or not do? that other clubs are doing so well in Sydney?

[swantastic]

You don't know what you're talking about. You also have no idea of what has happened here. Excuse Sydney's lack of professionalism if you want to but do it with some basis of fact. Not grandstand guesswork.

I've had a taste first hand of Sydney's "professionalism" and they can keep it for all I care.

That's a bit harsh,Steve was giving his opinion and if you think it is wrong you prove it by telling us the individuals who you delt with at the Swans who were "unprofessional".Other wise i'll take your comments as "grandstand guesswork"

[Mr_Juicy]

That's a bit harsh,Steve was giving his opinion and if you think it is wrong you prove it by telling us the individuals who you delt with at the Swans who were "unprofessional".Other wise i'll take your comments as "grandstand guesswork"

or sour grapes

[Steve]

If not showing interest in certain players = arrogance, then so be it.

If 14 y/o's, their families, their coaches, their junior clubs and whoever else has ever met them need a club to piss in their pocket, I'm happy for Hawthorn to do that for them.

I'm guessing all the indignance is coming from parents and coaches, not the kids.

Like everyone else I'm happy to hear exactly what the Swans have done ...

[Boodnutz]

If not showing interest in certain players = arrogance, then so be it.

If 14 y/o's, their families, their coaches, their junior clubs and whoever else has ever met them need a club to piss in their pocket, I'm happy for Hawthorn to do that for them.

I'm guessing all the indignance is coming from parents and coaches, not the kids.

Like everyone else I'm happy to hear exactly what the Swans have done ...

There you go guessing again. I can't provide details on this site. Would love to, but would be more trouble than it is worth. But I can say I know I'm not alone in my views among others involved in junior football in this state. From what I see and hear Sydney are turning people off in big numbers across a number of clubs. It isn't the point if some of these young players ultimately won't be good enough.

There's no sour grapes from this end - players just go quietly somewhere else.

And you could probably take the view that without a whole pile of detail that this view doesn't mean much. All I can say is if you have the chance, talk to anyone who has been involved in their "process" and you'll see what I mean. I can tell you, the Stubbs' experience is not a "one-off".

[goswannie14]

And you could probably take the view that without a whole pile of detail that this view doesn't mean much.

Well, you got that right.

Exhortation without explanation leads to exasperation.