How lucky/smart are we?

[DeadlyAkkuret]

The youth of the Swans isn't even remarkable compared to the league standard, let alone any other examples in recent memory. At best, there are a handful of fairly capable players there.

What's the league standard. Enlighten us?

[DeadlyAkkuret]

The youth of the Swans isn't even remarkable compared to the league standard, let alone any other examples in recent memory. At best, there are a handful of fairly capable players there.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so negative after the youngsters have only played a handful of games.

Not every player can develop as fast as Judd did and win a Brownlow when they're 20, but the latest additions to our team have shown plenty of promise early and that's all we can hope for.

They may never end up being more than just "capable" players, but they have the potential to be stars.

[NMWBloods]

Maybe he's saying that after just a handful of games there is no need to be overly confident yet either. They look capable and we'll see over time whether they develop into more or less or the same as that.

[Donners]

Maybe he's saying that after just a handful of games there is no need to be overly confident yet either. They look capable and we'll see over time whether they develop into more or less or the same as that.

Exactly. I have been reasonably impressed with how they've gone, but none of the new faces have set the world on fire. There's cause for some optimism, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The likes of Robert Teal, Andrew McGovern, Shane Fell, Ricky Mott, Justin Crawford and Ben Doolan had promising starts to their careers too.

[Donners]

What's the league standard. Enlighten us?

Well, the four players first named in the thread are Moore, Jack, Bird and Barlow, aged 19-22 with several years on the list in a couple of cases. Add in Grundy, McVeigh and Schmidt as players also in that range for the sake of comparison.

Even a struggling side like West Coast has the likes of Rosa, McKinley, Priddis, Waters, Kennedy, Hurn, LeCras and Brown in that range, who have achieved more than all those players, perhaps bar McVeigh, despite being in a successful side where selection would be tough.

Look at Essendon, with Houli, Gumbleton, Neagle, Ryder, Jetta and Daniher. Try Adelaide, with Knights, Dangerfield, Tippett and Van Berlo. Brisbane? Lewenberger, Stiller, Sherman, Rsichitelli. Bulldogs? Cooney, Everitt, Hill, Williams, Harbrow. Roos? Thomas, Swallow, Smith, Lower, Hansen. Geelong? Prismall, Selwood, Donohue, Hawkins, Blake...

Again, there is some promise among Sydney's youth, and some may well become top players. I hope they do. To suggest that our youth are in any way exceptional at this point is not justified.

[reigning premier]

Missing the point here a little.... Yes we've got some talented young players, but that's not the main thrust here.

The younger players we have are probably not the best in the league. But then again, we haven't been languishing in 15th & 16th places for the last few years in order to pick us ourselves up some quality draft picks. No doubt, Carlton & Hawthorn have some cracking young talent.

Point is, we've managed our guys well. We've selected wisely from the lower order picks and we have brought them in slowly. Now we have 4, 5, 6 or more young league level players coming in one season. That's pushing up towards 25-30% of our team. And on top of that, we're winning.

Now again, good luck or good management?

[liz]

Now again, good luck or good management?

Bit of both. What it does do is illustrate the value of the rookie list in giving a cheaper option to clubs to trial players who otherwise wouldn't get a go. The number of very very good AFL players who have come through the rookie system - not just at the Swans, at every club - is staggering given how many other kids were deemed to be better prospects than them at age 18.

Given there is going to be a squeeze on talent in 4 or 5 years time as the AFL tries to introduce two new clubs, I think there's a case to be made for expanding the rookie system in the next year or so, both by increasing the number of rookies a club can take and relaxing the rules on how long a club can keep them. If some clubs need additional financial help to enable them to do this, so be it.

Even if the clubs between them manage to produce just an extra dozen or so competent 22 year old players by 2011/2012, it is going to go someway towards easing the squeeze on talent. It's too much to expect an additional 88 AFL quality players to be found all at once, even allowing for the proposed stockpiling of Queensland talent over the next couple of seasons.

[reigning premier]

Bit of both. Snip.

I think it might run a bit deeper.

Obviously it's only an assumption but the way we're introducing new players this year, Bird on debut, Jack & Barlow permanent fixtures, Nick Smith last week, Jesse White this week, would lead me to think that there has been a fairly deliberate plan put in place by Roos. i.e. Post 2005, recruit on a long term strategy, use the cattle we have up until the new guys we do recruit have the matured and hardened bodies and then have another tilt at a flag whilst we retain a few of our older and wiser heads.

Or am I just reading to much into it?

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Even a struggling side like West Coast has the likes of Rosa, McKinley, Priddis, Waters, Kennedy, Hurn, LeCras and Brown in that range, who have achieved more than all those players, perhaps bar McVeigh, despite being in a successful side where selection would be tough.

Look at Essendon, with Houli, Gumbleton, Neagle, Ryder, Jetta and Daniher. Try Adelaide, with Knights, Dangerfield, Tippett and Van Berlo. Brisbane? Lewenberger, Stiller, Sherman, Rsichitelli. Bulldogs? Cooney, Everitt, Hill, Williams, Harbrow. Roos? Thomas, Swallow, Smith, Lower, Hansen. Geelong? Prismall, Selwood, Donohue, Hawkins, Blake...

No offence, but a lot of those players are no better than Barlow, Jack or Moore. What's Kennedy done? What makes Everitt any better? Has Daniher even played yet?

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that list.

[Donners]

Well, the question I quoted at the top of that post should make the point I'm trying to make rather obvious. Our youth are not remarkable compared to the league standard - not terrible, not special, just average.

[NMWBloods]

No offence, but a lot of those players are no better than Barlow, Jack or Moore. What's Kennedy done? What makes Everitt any better? Has Daniher even played yet?

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that list.

Why so defensive? Donners didn't say that those youngsters are better than ours. He was responding to the initial comment that "I personally can't think of a team that has blooded as many young players in such a short period with such success." and provided a list to say that a number of teams have brought in a number of young players with promise.

[hammo]

I think it might run a bit deeper.

Obviously it's only an assumption but the way we're introducing new players this year, Bird on debut, Jack & Barlow permanent fixtures, Nick Smith last week, Jesse White this week, would lead me to think that there has been a fairly deliberate plan put in place by Roos. i.e. Post 2005, recruit on a long term strategy, use the cattle we have up until the new guys we do recruit have the matured and hardened bodies and then have another tilt at a flag whilst we retain a few of our older and wiser heads.

Or am I just reading to much into it?

I doubt we would have blooded so many new players had Hall and Kennelly not missed matches. Fosdike and Spida would be automatic selections also and perhaps even Crouch.

[liz]

Why so defensive? Donners didn't say that those youngsters are better than ours.

He said that those listed players had achieved more than our equivalents. Some have, some haven't. Around 4 of the listed players are yet to even debut.

Some clubs have blooded more youngsters because all their players over the age of 22 are pretty ordinary. Some have blooded more youngsters because they've have perenniel access to ready made players via multiple first round draft picks. Some have just blooded more young players.

Regardless, it doesn't stop us celebrating the emergence of what looks to be some solid new blood into our team, irrespective of what other teams are doing. Which I think was the spirit of even the opening post.

Let's hope a couple of them go on from their promising starts and turn into our next ROK, B2 or even Goodsey.

[NMWBloods]

He said that those listed players had achieved more than our equivalents.

Ah - yes, now I re-read I had misread that.

[Donners]

He said that those listed players had achieved more than our equivalents. Some have, some haven't. Around 4 of the listed players are yet to even debut.

Actually, I said that only in relation to the West Coast players I listed. All those have played, and I think all have made quite an impression. Rosa, Waters, Priddis and Hurn got upwards of 20 touches a game in a star midfield last season, Le Cras is scoring almost two goals a game, McKinley has been remarkable in a struggling side this season and Kennedy is widely touted as a great prospect. That's far greater success than those players listed for Sydney have managed, in my opinion.

The other players listed were just examples of the talent coming through at other clubs, which I still think is at least as impressive as what we have at this point. Hell, I didn't even cover several of the weaker teams who have been taking a series of high draft picks.

Barlow showed terrific signs last season, yet wasn't even named in the side at the start of the season. The others have played moderate supporting roles at best - again, not terrible, but far from remarkable.