Adam Goodes and the best player in the AFL debate

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  • connolly
    Registered User
    • Aug 2005
    • 2461

    Originally posted by BSA5
    That's bull@@@@. Why is being what you call a "complete" player so important? Give me one logical reason why that is more important than overall output. Einstein failed maths at school, and needed help with the mathematics of his theories of relativity. Does that make him any less of a genius?
    Well just like if someone is an idiot. Its the pinnacle of idiocy to be called a complete idiot. You confuse results with efficiency. Efficiency is critical in football. (Or taking your chances as it was once called) The ratio of inputs (inside 50's) to output (goals). And Franklin is rather poor in that regard.
    Bevo bandwagon driver

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    • BSA5
      Senior Player
      • Feb 2008
      • 2522

      Originally posted by connolly
      Well just like if someone is an idiot. Its the pinnacle of idiocy to be called a complete idiot. You confuse results with efficiency. Efficiency is critical in football. (Or taking your chances as it was once called) The ratio of inputs (inside 50's) to output (goals). And Franklin is rather poor in that regard.
      Nobody is arguing that Franklin is the pinnacle of football players. To be as good as humanly possible, yes, he'd have to be a complete player. To be the best forward in the competition, and a great player, he doesn't.

      I disagree that Franklin is poor in his ratio of input to output. If you take the number of times the ball is kicked to him, compared with the number of goals he kicks, then Franklin is actually very good. The thing is, he creates a scoring shot out of almost every opportunity he gets, which is why he is able to kick so many behinds as well as kick about 100 goals in a season. Other players are less efficient in creating scoring shots, but more accurate.
      Officially on the Reid and Sumner bandwagon!

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      • liz
        Veteran
        Site Admin
        • Jan 2003
        • 16778

        Originally posted by connolly
        You confuse results with efficiency.
        Seems a good confusion to have. Football teams win points based on output, not process. If they kick a bigger score than the opposition they win the game. Doesn't matter how they went about it. And until teams start getting bonus points for particularly graceful passages of play, or for winning stat categories, that's the way it's going to stay.

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        • connolly
          Registered User
          • Aug 2005
          • 2461

          Originally posted by liz
          Seems a good confusion to have. Football teams win points based on output, not process. If they kick a bigger score than the opposition they win the game. Doesn't matter how they went about it. And until teams start getting bonus points for particularly graceful passages of play, or for winning stat categories, that's the way it's going to stay.
          Football teams yes but not players. Players with inefficient input/output ratios are wasteful of opportunities.
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          • BSA5
            Senior Player
            • Feb 2008
            • 2522

            Originally posted by connolly
            Football teams yes but not players. Players with inefficient input/output ratios are wasteful of opportunities.
            Yes, they are. Franklin is not one of them. He has a very high input/output ratio. He turns almost all of the inputs from the midfield into scoring shots. From there, his accuracy drags his efficiency down. That doesn't mean it still isn't extremely high. Connolly, inputs aren't based on scoring shots, they're based on inside 50s. Franklin's goal:inside 50 ratio is very high.
            Officially on the Reid and Sumner bandwagon!

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            • Kanga
              On the Rookie List
              • Aug 2007
              • 274

              Originally posted by johnno
              now if he plays as a permanent forward and starts to dominate that position too, which I have no doubt he will, than there will be no question as to who is the best player in the AFL.
              That has really turned into a very big IF!!

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              • johnno
                On the Rookie List
                • Apr 2008
                • 1102

                Originally posted by Kanga
                That has really turned into a very big IF!!
                Kanga , I'm just wrapped that a thread I started more than a fortnight ago is still going strong after all this time. Come on fellas, surely we havent resolved the issue of whether Buddy is a star or not?

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                • Kanga
                  On the Rookie List
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 274

                  Originally posted by johnno
                  Kanga , I'm just wrapped that a thread I started more than a fortnight ago is still going strong after all this time. Come on fellas, surely we havent resolved the issue of whether Buddy is a star or not?
                  If you like I can stir the pot a little more with a youtube clip......of Carey, - that will get Connolly and Annie into a lather (again). King Carey - BigFooty

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                  • Lohengrin
                    On the Rookie List
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 641

                    Originally posted by johnno
                    Kanga , I'm just wrapped that a thread I started more than a fortnight ago is still going strong after all this time. Come on fellas, surely we havent resolved the issue of whether Buddy is a star or not?
                    Lockett thinks he is!

                    "He is a genuine superstar, I would say."


                    Buddy could be an all-time great: Plugger - realfooty.com.au

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                    • connolly
                      Registered User
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 2461

                      Originally posted by Kanga
                      If you like I can stir the pot a little more with a youtube clip......of Carey, - that will get Connolly and Annie into a lather (again). King Carey - BigFooty
                      Listen Skippy Annie and i have never lathered up. Particularly over king sized onanist as the (now dead duck).
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                      • Lohengrin
                        On the Rookie List
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 641

                        Yeah that Buddy's no good...

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                        • ScottH
                          It's Goodes to cheer!!
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 23665

                          Originally posted by Lohengrin
                          Yeah that Buddy's no good...
                          12 clangers says so!!

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                          • hammo
                            Veterans List
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 5554

                            Injured or not, tonight was one of those classic games where Adam Goodes goes missing for long periods.
                            "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

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                            • mcs
                              Travelling Swannie!!
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 8168

                              Originally posted by hammo
                              Injured or not, tonight was one of those classic games where Adam Goodes goes missing for long periods.
                              That is very very very harsh. He has been injured (and by all reports fairly badly) for weeks on end and has basically been stuck to playing out of the goal square. He can't run, and when we arent getting much ball from the midfield he isn't going to be very effective playing out of the goal square is he? And as much as the commentators thought he should of been thrown into the middle, it wasnt an option.
                              "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

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                              • Wazza
                                Regular in the Side
                                • May 2004
                                • 805

                                Originally posted by mcs
                                That is very very very harsh. He has been injured (and by all reports fairly badly) for weeks on end and has basically been stuck to playing out of the goal square. He can't run, and when we arent getting much ball from the midfield he isn't going to be very effective playing out of the goal square is he? And as much as the commentators thought he should of been thrown into the middle, it wasnt an option.
                                Correct very very bad coaching and selection process Goodes could hardly move.

                                Cheers

                                Waz

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