The official Swans are a @@@@@@ up bag of rabble thread....

[msb]

It's the end of an era, all over, I have never left a game at half-time before but last night I did. Just unbearable not only the performance of swans but those vile, arrogant, rotten collingwood supporters!
I am actually disappointed we are guaranteed to make finals, just end this year, hopefully have a clean out and start again. The thought of potentially playing collingwood again in week 1 is sickening!

[Nico]

It's the end of an era, all over, I have never left a game at half-time before but last night I did. Just unbearable not only the performance of swans but those vile, arrogant, rotten collingwood supporters!
I am actually disappointed we are guaranteed to make finals, just end this year, hopefully have a clean out and start again. The thought of potentially playing collingwood again in week 1 is sickening!

Not another one, surely there has been worse than that in your time as a supporter. Harden up old son/girl. Work through the pain and make sure you buy your seasons ticket next year.

What got me was Pies supporters don't know much about the game and don't know a lot of their players. Those around me were getting into them in the last quarter when they made a couple of mistakes, but were unable to nominate the player; weird mob.

[msb]

Not another one, surely there has been worse than that in your time as a supporter. Harden up old son/girl. Work through the pain and make sure you buy your seasons ticket next year.

What got me was Pies supporters don't know much about the game and don't know a lot of their players. Those around me were getting into them in the last quarter when they made a couple of mistakes, but were unable to nominate the player; weird mob.

No I cant think of a game that was worse, maybe the 04 semi final against st.kilda. It just made it 20 times worse cause it was against that scum last night, against anyone else and I would of hung around.

I hear what your saying about their supporters though, they certainly are more than a weird mob!

I'll get my season ticket next year, but want to see changes!

[NMWBloods]

None of this was surprising at the start of the season. It's the inevitable slide down the ladder after a few years at the top. It's a few years of finishing 9th-12th while rebuilding the team. It really should have started more this year. For the newcomers it's getting used to not always having success. It's the normal cyclicality in football.

[swansrule100]

we are going to have some poor nights like this over the next couple of years as we rebuild.

I think as long as they are developing the side to win the next flag you can wear it. But it means we need to make some tough decisions. The trouble is i think we need a reasonably high turnover of players, maybe more than is possible to replace? so some older hands may earn another year due to lack of options.

[Legs Akimbo]

we are going to have some poor nights like this over the next couple of years as we rebuild.

I think as long as they are developing the side to win the next flag you can wear it. But it means we need to make some tough decisions. The trouble is i think we need a reasonably high turnover of players, maybe more than is possible to replace? so some older hands may earn another year due to lack of options.

Some of the pain is self imposed. If the club had accepted eary last year we were not a realistic shot and had started the process, we would be further along the path of redevelopment. Regrettably, certain premiership players who should have been gracefully but progressively moved on over the last season and a half, have been allowed to play on. Consequently, we have a 22 - 26 year old quality player deficit, in a similar vein to what Richmond has suffered. This will really bite next year.

Add to that our hustory of trading picks for the likes of Richards, Mattner, Chambers, Everitt and Playfair - all older players with question marks on their skill levels...

[NMWBloods]

Some of the pain is self imposed. If the club had accepted eary last year we were not a realistic shot and had started the process, we would be further along the path of redevelopment.

Definitely. We really should have started that process in '07.

[sfan]

vespa will become a midfielder with fitness and time. He is not a KPP

My impression of vespa is that he will need several hard pre seasons to get the fitness level to be an elite midfielder. At best a crumbing small forward until then.

Hally is still a great forward playing in a side with a pathetic mifield who can't kick to save themselves. Way too many passes to his leads are either over his head or too high making it easy for the defenders. We need a few Cousins type players who can pass a football and Hally would kick a 100 goals.

[lwjoyner]

see other post

A poast I made on another thread says it all. WE have not turned over players enough, The Swans should have learnt a lesson when Eade was coach and after 1996 we didnt make too many changes. Lioke wise we shgould have been progressively changing the list since 2005 but we continue to pick up other teams cast off like Playfair and Mattner who to me is too much like Leo being only left sided and runs into trouble. Perter Everiit was one year too late and only pehaps Teddy boy has at least earned his stripes. To many credits are given for a premiership we should have been ruthless from 2006....................................

[TheMase]

None of this was surprising at the start of the season. It's the inevitable slide down the ladder after a few years at the top. It's a few years of finishing 9th-12th while rebuilding the team. It really should have started more this year. For the newcomers it's getting used to not always having success. It's the normal cyclicality in football.

I think the process DID start this year. It has just taken some time for the team to perform how they had expected all season.

This season at various stages, we have played: Bird, Grundy, Schmidt, Barlow, Jack, White, Moore, Smith, Brabazon, O'Dwyer, Veszpremi, Brennan with Thornton only missing our due to ACL injury.

To cycle 12 players through the team during a season, would suggest the process is well underway.

[Lucky Knickers]

At best a crumbing small forward until then.

Nothing to complain about in that position whilst we wait.

[liz]

Some of the pain is self imposed. If the club had accepted eary last year we were not a realistic shot and had started the process, we would be further along the path of redevelopment. Regrettably, certain premiership players who should have been gracefully but progressively moved on over the last season and a half, have been allowed to play on. Consequently, we have a 22 - 26 year old quality player deficit, in a similar vein to what Richmond has suffered. This will really bite next year.

Add to that our hustory of trading picks for the likes of Richards, Mattner, Chambers, Everitt and Playfair - all older players with question marks on their skill levels...

The 22-26 year old deficit can't be put down to not moving on players in the last season or so. It's down to deciding to trade for Hall and Jolly, in particular. Does anyone think those decisions were wrong? I suspect the drought would be up to 75 years by now if we hadn't.

It's also down to a poor drafting return in 2003-4 (on top of the Jolly trade). Willoughby was a bust, Schmidt is proving to be a long term investment (not in the good sense). The speculative late picks like Erikson and Smokey didn't pay off.

I don't think the trades for Richards and Mattner were mistakes. They may never be superstars but their skills are mostly adequate (admittedly both are capable of some howlers too). They are good solid players and if you compare them to typical players drafted with picks we used to get them (or directly with Schneider, in Mattner's case), they don't appear to be losses. Nor, at the ages we got them, do I think we've necessarily lost out on years of service if you look at average length of careers.

I think the process DID start this year. It has just taken some time for the team to perform how they had expected all season.

This season at various stages, we have played: Bird, Grundy, Schmidt, Barlow, Jack, White, Moore, Smith, Brabazon, O'Dwyer, Veszpremi, Brennan with Thornton only missing our due to ACL injury.

To cycle 12 players through the team during a season, would suggest the process is well underway.

Agree, and as I wrote elsewhere, the process hasn't been helped by injuries not just to Thornton but to Schmidt and Laidlaw, Meredith, Vez's hampered pre-season and ongoing groin problems, maybe DOK's ongoing groin problems.

It's just a case of wait and see as to how many of those prove themselves capable of becoming very good AFL players. It's a pretty safe bet that they won't all. We just don't know who will and how good they could become. I don't think O'Keefe, Kirk or Craig Bolton were showing signs at their age of becoming AA type players.

[Mogg0]

I actually changed the channel last night in the last quarter, it was getting too depressing. It was a combination of the thrilling Carlton v Brisbane game, the commentators talking doom and gloom, and our own @@@@ness, but still, I NEVER do that.

Sad.

[Xie Shan]

I think the process DID start this year. It has just taken some time for the team to perform how they had expected all season.

This season at various stages, we have played: Bird, Grundy, Schmidt, Barlow, Jack, White, Moore, Smith, Brabazon, O'Dwyer, Veszpremi, Brennan with Thornton only missing our due to ACL injury.

To cycle 12 players through the team during a season, would suggest the process is well underway.

I agree. I think injuries have made things more difficult too, with our backline particularly decimated (i.e. Leo, Tadhg, and Eski for starters), which would explain why we've conceded more goals this year. It's hard not to be disappointed with our finish to the season after a promising start, but the approach of easing youngsters into the team gradually while the core of the older group is still there is a good one, though we probably should have started doing this last year!!

[Nico]

My impression of vespa is that he will need several hard pre seasons to get the fitness level to be an elite midfielder. At best a crumbing small forward until then.

Hally is still a great forward playing in a side with a pathetic mifield who can't kick to save themselves. Way too many passes to his leads are either over his head or too high making it easy for the defenders. We need a few Cousins type players who can pass a football and Hally would kick a 100 goals.

Several years is a bit pessimistic. He shows great skill and poise for his age and the quality young players typically come on pretty quickly. Don't be surprised to see his stamina take a quantum leap next season.