How Many Will Leave?

[Claret]

Well he (Ablett) wasn't a very effective member then if thats the case.

That's pretty hard for us to judge, unless you made it to training each week and attended all the team meetings. Not all of history's great leaders have done their best leading on the actual field of battle (in the mould of Brett Kirk-style leadership).

[Wardy]

That's pretty hard for us to judge, unless you made it to training each week and attended all the team meetings. Not all of history's great leaders have done their best leading on the actual field of battle (in the mould of Brett Kirk-style leadership).

So he lead by example on the field then did he?

[Claret]

So he lead by example on the field then did he?

I obviously didn't make myself clear.

Some leaders lead on the field - eg. Kirk.

Others are fantastic trainers - eg. O'Keefe

Others still are good at nurturing young talent - eg. Matthews

Pick up any book, or do any course, on leadership and you'll find that there are many forms of leadership. But I think you already know this.

I might be wrong about this, but I reckon that the listed players at the Swans, along with the Match Committee, have more of an idea as to Ablett's worth as a leader than you or I.

[Wardy]

I obviously didn't make myself clear.

Some leaders lead on the field - eg. Kirk.

Others are fantastic trainers - eg. O'Keefe

Others still are good at nurturing young talent - eg. Matthews

Pick up any book, or do any course, on leadership and you'll find that there are many forms of leadership. But I think you already know this.

I might be wrong about this, but I reckon that the listed players at the Swans, along with the Match Committee, have more of an idea as to Ablett's worth as a leader than you or I.

I care how a player goes on the field - and he was very ordinary this year - yet he still played seniors when there were those in reserves who would do better. This is where the leadership group thing has gaping holes.

How many times did Matthews keep playing in seniors, even though he was absolute crap all because he was in the "Inner sanctum" ? Once he left the LG it all changed. sure he is a top bloke and a great club man - but most dont give a rats about that - they want the results on the field and the best 22 out there. Roos and the LG clearly play favourites.

and who's to say that Barry Hall has had enough of being lectured by the big boys - I know I would tell them to shove it. and I know that I"m not the only person who sees it from this angle.

there are more factions at the Swans than at an ALP conference.

And dont get me started on their holier than thou Blood Brothers, no dickheads rule @@@@. That just sends me over the edge.

[Claret]

I agree with everything you just said. Whilst Ablett may well in fact have been, or rather is, a very capable leader he clearly wasn't in our best 22 for the majority of the year. He should have spent more time in the 2's, no doubt.

There does seem to be a reluctance to drop leaders for some reason. My argument would be - wouldn't it give the leader an opportunity to display a good work ethic to get back in the top league?

It will be interesting to see what they decide to do about Leo Barry's leadership status for next year given what Roos has said publicly lately.

[Wardy]

I agree with everything you just said. Whilst Ablett may well in fact have been, or rather is, a very capable leader he clearly wasn't in our best 22 for the majority of the year. He should have spent more time in the 2's, no doubt.

There does seem to be a reluctance to drop leaders for some reason. My argument would be - wouldn't it give the leader an opportunity to display a good work ethic to get back in the top league?

It will be interesting to see what they decide to do about Leo Barry's leadership status for next year given what Roos has said publicly lately.

and thats what I just dont get - they say they are all for transperancy - all for one and one for all - yet you can turn and a player can be hung out to dry in the blink of an eye (that wasnt meant to rhyme!) yet I'm sure that not even the "Dalai Kirk" or "There's no smell to my poo Roos" are as pure as they make themselves out to be.

I mean really lets be honest - Leo Barry is really past his use by date - but he got another year - if his performance is less than acceptable does anyone honestly think he will be dropped to reserves seeing as he is a co-captain and all? No thought not.

[Claret]

I mean really lets be honest - Leo Barry is really past his use by date - but he got another year - if his performance is less than acceptable does anyone honestly think he will be dropped to reserves seeing as he is a co-captain and all? No thought not.

Roos suggested last week that he made Leo aware that there were no guarantees and that he could be dropped. Like you, I'm dubious though.

[Wardy]

Roos suggested last week that he made Leo aware that there were no guarantees and that he could be dropped. Like you, I'm dubious though.

Yeah I guess we just have to wait and see what transpires!!!

[Pace To Burn]

I mean really lets be honest - Leo Barry is really past his use by date - but he got another year - if his performance is less than acceptable does anyone honestly think he will be dropped to reserves seeing as he is a co-captain and all? No thought not.

Yeah I guess we just have to wait and see what transpires!!!

It will depend alot on his role. There ws only one or two games this year where he was beaten by his opponent badly, if he is playing on the third or fourth best forward (back pocket)he will hold his own and is still in the best 22,if he has to play fullback on a gun could be a diff story.

[Donners]

i hope that it goes something like this,
Retirements:
Spida & Mathews

Delistings:
Ablett - Can be replaced by a younger body that will improve
Crouch - won't be around for our next premiership may as well play youth
Brennan - Can't cement a spot & cant kick we have plenty with heart but skills?
Davis - Afraid you will move on mate love to see you in the side however
Smith- Brabazon or O"Dwyer afraid one of you will move on but which one is up to the coaches.

This then frees us up to replenish heavily using the draft

Seven players? We will have 3-4 picks of any value at the national draft, and even that is pushing it based on our recent drafting. One in the pre-season maybe, and even then we may not have the salary cap to use it based on those losses. 2-3 rookie promotions? I doubt it.

I wouldn't expect more than 3 delistings.

[swantastic]

I thought it was Kennelly, O'Keefe and Craig Bolton that went into the leadership group - I didnt think that Ablett was in it at all. Also Ablett hasnt done any media representing the LG - all he got was the run in the raffle add and that was about it.

I still maintain that the Swans leadership group is too much of an "us" & "them" set up. But then some like the LG thing some dont.

There has to be an "us" and "them" but there can also a friendship between the both.

The "us" has to be respected by the "them" but they have to show respect the other way too.

In a team environment you need a leadership group and another group that takes orders,other wise there would be anarchy.

[goswannie14]

In a team environment you need a leadership group and another group that takes orders,other wise there would be anarchy.

The problem is, as in our case, when the leadership group see maintaining their group in the seniors regardless of form as more important than the team.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Liz

I am not sinister and not looking to stir trouble. From my recollection Luke was the only member of the LG to be stood down for form reasons when other had previously been kept in. As the youngest or one thereof it seemed the older players where given more grace then he and he is not happy about that.

Also Luke is another Melbourne boy who maybe wants to go home like ROCCA, GRANT, GASPAR etc. Thats why the swans select so many South Australian kids, they tend to stay if they are good enough. STEVENS wasn't.

HALL and O'KEEFE Melbourne looking to go home. Heart strings pull strong and maybe they see a brighter future else where.

[DST]

Liz

I am not sinister and not looking to stir trouble. From my recollection Luke was the only member of the LG to be stood down for form reasons when other had previously been kept in. As the youngest or one thereof it seemed the older players where given more grace then he and he is not happy about that.

Also Luke is another Melbourne boy who maybe wants to go home like ROCCA, GRANT, GASPAR etc. Thats why the swans select so many South Australian kids, they tend to stay if they are good enough. STEVENS wasn't.

HALL and O'KEEFE Melbourne looking to go home. Heart strings pull strong and maybe they see a brighter future else where.

Gasper was Perth, so he never wanted to go home.

We have not lost a player to the "go home" mentality since the Rocca and Grant so this is a non issue.

We now have the right infastructure within the club to a) get the right the people and b) retain them becuase they want to be a part of a strong club

DST

[tez]

[QUOTE=WauchopeAnalyst;414423]The difficulty the Swans faces relates to where we will be in two years if players aren't pruned now. We have to scedule a renewal program as we have one of the oldest lists in the league.

Only the champs and game winners get to stay until the end. At this time that only includes O'Loughlin, Hall and Kirk in the older players.

Fosdike was just about BOG in 05 GF .

Buchanan was the near BOG in the 05 GF and some say robbed of the
Norman. Fosdyke did ok, but no where near as effective as Monty.